Foreign SaaS Companies

Excellent interview, thanks for linking it.

Gavin’s point about SaaS companies’ margins and how they might find it difficult to adapt to the AI world is interesting.

Currently, good SaaS companies enjoy 80-90% gross margins because the distribution costs of well-made software are, of course, almost non-existent in the cloud.

But for AI companies, gross margins are only around 40% because they are constantly using compute.

In Gavin’s opinion, SaaS companies—which currently have the customers, data, and industry expertise—should take a hit to their margins now before it’s too late. Note: the hit to the bottom line is not necessarily as bad, because AI companies can manage with fewer people.

Here is the link to the SaaS section.

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Here are some good reflections on the SaaS sector and AI. I’ve been wondering about the same thing: Why? Why should I “vibe code” some CRM system myself instead of, for example, focusing on selling elevators? I might as well just remain a CRM customer. Somewhere I saw similar reflections regarding the legal field; a company that had started doing things themselves with AI noticed that they were now just grinding through legal stuff instead of their core business.

Also, reflections on how AI disrupts these; switching between companies (classic examples being SAP and Oracle) is easier. New companies will likely emerge in new areas (such as using AI in video), but for the core operations of SaaS companies, it’s not seen as a threat, but as an opportunity.

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Shopify performed quite reasonably at the end of the year; revenue continued its rapid growth, and the pace even accelerated from before. The most important thing for investors is likely that growth is no longer burning cash; instead, the company is clearly making money and building up its cash reserves.

Management showed confidence in the company by launching a share buyback program. Margins are under some pressure as the weight of the payments business increases, but the cost structure is scaling nicely nonetheless.

The company seems to have shifted more from pursuing growth to becoming a strong cash flow generator. This direction will likely give investors more confidence in the future and the growth foundation. SaaS companies haven’t been in favor lately; I wonder if that’s part of the reason why the price reaction in the after-market was in the red…

https://x.com/StockMarketNerd/status/2021564430233026942



https://x.com/InvestingVisual/status/2021670721756217473


The company’s own materials




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A bit of SaaS bearishness for a change; a good episode from 20VC with the founder of Klarna

The main point here is perhaps that in the future, there might instead be several different AI agent firms that could basically offer the entire software stack in one package.

Also some bearishness from one major tech investor:
Fund Beating 99% of Peers Sees Few Software Firms Surviving AI

At least things are getting interesting :smiley:

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SemiAnalysis has a good write-up on the same theme, it’s worth reading in its entirety.

“In our view, anything that has a human click buttons, gather information, reformat it into another medium (email, chart, excel, presentation) is a huge risk.”

The author predicts Microsoft will be the biggest loser, and the reasoning around this was interesting. “Claude for Excel is what Copilot was supposed to be for Excel.” While Microsoft’s strategy is built around O365, Azure, and Copilot, the author argues that Azure and Copilot cannot win at the same time, as Azure provides the compute platform for “barbarians” like Claude, who are eating Copilot.

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A good quarterly report from Figma in my view. https://investor.figma.com/news-events/news/news-details/2026/Figma-Announces-Fourth-Quarter-and-Fiscal-Year-2025-Financial-Results/default.aspx

Revenue +40% yoy. Net dollar retention 136%. Figma Make’s weekly AU +70% qoq!

GAAP result is heavily in the red (SBC) but cash flow is being generated nicely…

On the call, the CEO mentioned, among other things, how Claude Code integrates seamlessly into the Figma environment.

This isn’t an AI loser, is it?

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Thanks for sharing! Sebastian’s view on how challengers will next attack moats—meaning switching costs—is interesting.

In software, the code itself has never been the “thing.” Software is protected by data, switching costs, habits, brand, recognition, etc. Especially switching from one ERP to another is a real slog, as investors know from the ERP blow-ups on the Helsinki Stock Exchange in years past.

However, I’m still a bit unclear on the specifics of how exactly switching costs will decrease and how data will be moved agilely from one place to another… Not all players are as tech-agile as Klarna, either. :smiley:

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In my view, it is very clear that switching costs will decrease (drastically so).

I already see that AI tools help significantly with one of the biggest challenges: training people / change management. When people don’t have to read manuals and train themselves in the same way, but can instead use AI to get fast and accurate help, the psychological threshold for switching platforms decreases considerably.

I also see that integrations and data migrations will likely become much easier with AI. Problem-solving and the transition will happen much faster than what we are used to.

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Here is a piece from SalkunRakentaja about Datadog. :slight_smile:

For Datadog, fears materialized in July 2025 when Guggenheim Securities downgraded its rating to a sell. Analyst Howard Ma warned that OpenAI, the company’s largest single customer, is building its own log management and monitoring tools.

The risk is real, but so far the feared catastrophe has not materialized. In the fourth-quarter results, Datadog’s core business excluding AI-native customers accelerated to 23 percent growth, compared to a pace of 20 percent in the previous quarter.

In the earnings call, the company’s management emphasized that there has been a clear turn for the better in the broad-based business.

Subheadings:

  1. AI as both an opportunity and a threat
  2. Growth prospects and analysts’ views
  3. What is the growth expectation based on?
  4. A key customer is a risk
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Pekka has started buying software companies.


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Snowflake delivered a mostly strong result; revenue, earnings, and cash flow exceeded expectations.

The company’s AI investments have apparently hit the mark, as more and more customers are using its AI tools, leading to even stronger customer commitment to the service.

Record numbers of new customers were added, and existing ones also increased their consumption. Snowflake is also expanding by acquiring the company Observe and is seeking growth in the IT services sector market.

https://x.com/StockMarketNerd/status/2026769881396306007



Company’s own materials





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Here is SalkunRakentaja’s story about ServiceNow :slight_smile:

When the stock price dives, insider actions often tell more than earnings reports. In mid-February, ServiceNow CEO Bill McDermott bought company shares on the open market for three million dollars.

At the same time, the CFO and the CHRO cancelled their pre-arranged 10b5-1 trading plans, i.e., pre-agreed schedules within which corporate executives typically sell their shares regularly.

The message is clear. Management does not believe that the current stock price reflects the true value of the business, and they do not want to sell shares at these levels.

Subheadings:

  1. The dark shadow of AI
  2. Earnings figures tell a different story
  3. CEO bought shares for three million dollars
  4. AI divides opinions
  5. Analysts see strong upside potential
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The tweet below explains how ServiceNow’s CEO is targeting a trillion-dollar market cap for his company by 2030, by leveraging AI agents and new pricing models, among other things.

He has indeed tied his compensation to the performance of the stock price, which could be assumed to underscore strong confidence in the company’s growth and innovativeness.

https://x.com/TheTranscript_/status/2030678701575467167



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I’m sharing Sergey’s latest highlights on SaaS companies :slight_smile:

First, a PSG comparison

A useful way to compare software companies is the PSG ratio (Price/Sales/Growth) — calculated as EV/Sales divided by expected revenue growth.

• Median PSG ≈ 0.35 (blue line)
• Lower PSG → growth-adjusted valuation looks more attractive
• Higher PSG → investors are paying a larger premium relative to growth

https://x.com/SergeyCYW/status/2030652523309322280



For now, investors are favoring companies with strong revenue, improving margins, and sustainable business models over hyper-growth.

https://x.com/SergeyCYW/status/2030621317192687796




And then a bit more on the valuation of SaaS companies; market leaders command a high premium.

Forward EV/Sales vs NTM revenue growth is still one of the clearest ways to understand how the market prices software companies. • High-growth leaders trade at clear premiums. Companies like $APP, $NET, $CRWD sit well above the trendline.

https://x.com/SergeyCYW/status/2030258932367966408


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Just mentioning in this thread as well that I opened a dedicated thread for Constellation yesterday.

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Here is a video by Drew Cohen on the threats generated by AI for SaaS companies. I recommend the channel in general. In my opinion, it features some of the highest-quality and most thorough company analyses on YouTube for the companies discussed in this thread, such as Adobe, Constellation Software, Intuit, Microsoft, Salesforce, and ServiceNow.

Below is a summary of the video. I take no responsibility for the accuracy of the summary. It may contain hallucinations from the author. According to Cohen’s assessment, software companies face the following six risks due to the AI disruption:

1. Disruption of the Business Model

The first risk discussed in the video is the death of the user-count-based (seat-based) billing model for software companies. As AI agents improve productivity, the need for labor decreases, and customers no longer require the same number of software licenses. Cohen does not consider this a significant risk, but believes that software companies can shift to usage-based billing or increase prices. One option is to bill for software at the entire enterprise level, where the price is negotiated on a per-customer basis. This offers customers better cost predictability than usage-based billing. Ed. note: In Finland, Admicom operates this way.

2. Customers Developing Their Own Software

The so-called “vibe coding” threat. Companies want to focus on their core business, not maintain applications. Code is complex, and self-made applications are prone to errors. Large corporations can find better areas for savings than external software costs. This risk is unlikely, as the integration and maintenance of software is difficult without specialists hired for the task.

3. New AI Startups as Competitors

AI enables the creation of new software very quickly and cheaply. Cohen points out that a cheap product alone is not enough. Established software companies have strong distribution networks, customer trust, and well-known brands that are difficult for newcomers to overcome. As examples, he cites Salesforce and ServiceNow, which have constantly faced smaller and cheaper competitors that have failed to gain market share. New startups have a better chance of replacing software offering point solutions and winning customers among early-stage companies.

4. LLM, Token Risk, and Margin Compression

As language models evolve, AI agents will be able to replace an increasing portion of human labor and become the part of the software that generates the most value for the customer. This could lead AI companies to raise the price for using their agents in software, whereby the rising price of tokens eats into the margins of software companies. However, Cohen believes that competition between language models will keep prices in check. Language models that become too expensive can be excluded from the software. The risk materializes if one of the language models manages to achieve a dominant market position.

5. Tightening Competition Between Established Players

In the video, this is highlighted as the most significant of the risks emerged so far. As software development accelerates and development costs fall, large companies are encroaching on each other’s territories and striving to become so-called centralized AI control centers. Signs of this are already visible, as Salesforce and ServiceNow have expanded their operations into each other’s core functions. Both companies aim to be an “AI Control Center,” used to manage the use of AI tools, define access rights, and prevent or fix errors made by them.

6. AGI - Artificial General Intelligence

A very speculative scenario for now. The timing of AGI’s arrival is difficult to predict. The risk for software companies is existential, because at this level, AI does not need software but can operate directly within databases.

I usually skip all messages that begin with “I asked my chosen AI language model about this…”, but in this case, since it relates slightly to the topic, here is Gemini’s assessment of the correctness of the video’s conclusions as a light closer.

Summary

1. Disruption of the Economic Model (Death of User-Based Billing)

  • Cohen’s Claim: Companies will survive this by changing their pricing (e.g., usage-based or enterprise-level licenses).
  • Assessment: Highly likely.
  • Reasoning: The software industry has historically transitioned from one-time purchases (on-premise) to subscriptions (SaaS). Companies like Klarna have already reported replacing thousands of work hours with AI, but they have not stopped using basic software.
  • Evidence: Salesforce and Adobe have already announced AI add-ons (e.g., Salesforce Agentforce) that are billed based on performance/usage, not user count.

2. Shift of Software Production In-house (“In-housing”)

  • Cohen’s Claim: Unlikely, because companies do not want to maintain complex code and self-made applications are error-prone.
  • Assessment: Partially wrong / Uncertain.
  • Reasoning: Cohen underestimates the disruption of “low-code/no-code” development. While Nike might not code its own ERP system, it can use AI to code hundreds of small internal tools for which it previously paid external parties (so-called Point Solutions).
  • Evidence: Gartner predicts that by 2026, 80% of software developers will use AI assistants, lowering the threshold for tailored internal solutions.

3. New Competition from AI Startups

  • Cohen’s Claim: Startups will lose because they lack distribution and trust (distribution beats product).
  • Assessment: Correct (in the short term).
  • Reasoning: Historically, “incumbents” (established players) have integrated new technologies (like mobile and cloud) into their offerings faster than new players have gained market share.
  • Evidence: Microsoft’s rapid GPT integration into Office 365 ate the market for many small “AI-copywriting” startups almost immediately.

4. Token Risk and Margin Compression

  • Cohen’s Claim: Large Language Model (LLM) prices will fall due to competition and commoditization.
  • Assessment: Very correct.
  • Reasoning: “Inference costs” have fallen dramatically over the past year.
  • Evidence: API prices for OpenAI and Anthropic have dropped several times (e.g., GPT-4o is significantly cheaper than the original GPT-4). Open-source models (Meta: Llama 3) are also pushing prices down.

5. “Cannibalization” Between Established Players

  • Cohen’s Claim: The biggest risk is that large companies (e.g., ServiceNow vs. Salesforce) start eating into each other’s markets.
  • Assessment: Correct.
  • Reasoning: AI removes the need for specialization. If AI can handle both customer service and IT support, a company only needs one platform instead of two.
  • Evidence: ServiceNow has expanded aggressively into customer experience (CX), which has traditionally been Salesforce’s core area.

6. Existential Risk (AGI)

  • Cohen’s Claim: If AI can do everything, no software is safe. Markets do not know how to price this “all or nothing” scenario.
  • Assessment: Speculative but logical.
  • Reasoning: If AI can create user interfaces and logic on the fly directly on top of data, the traditional concept of an “application” dies.
  • Evidence: Jensen Huang (CEO of Nvidia) has stated that in the future “everyone is a coder” because natural language is the new programming language. This supports the idea of the software layer thinning out.

Summary and Confidence Level

I am about 85% certain of Cohen’s general analysis. He is correct that the distribution and data of software companies are their true protection, not the code itself.

[/details]The biggest weakness in Cohen’s analysis: He underestimates how quickly AI can completely eliminate the need for “apps.” If I can ask an AI, “Analyze my sales data and make a forecast,” I don’t need the Salesforce user interface; I just need access to the data.

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Interesting news from Intuit: https://www.wsj.com/cfo-journal/intuit-halts-management-stock-sales-accelerates-buybacks-7200051f

Here is my own summary and thoughts on the news:

  • The company’s executive management is suspending pre-scheduled stock sales under their compensation program and accelerating the share buyback program. For context, the company’s fiscal year 2026 Q2 ended on January 31st, meaning Intuit does not follow the calendar year in its reporting. In any case, $3.5 billion (~3% of market cap) remains from the company’s approved share buyback program, which the company intends to use during H2 of fiscal year 2026. This buyback amount would be double that of H1, and the total 2026 buybacks would also double compared to 2025.
  • The company’s CFO Sandeep Aujla commented that the reason behind the decision is very strong business momentum, while at the same time, the market or the stock price has decoupled from business fundamentals. According to him, the market is currently seeing a “boogeyman” that doesn’t exist, and he believes the company is currently mispriced.
  • According to the CFO, it took about 5 seconds for the management team to approve the suspension of 10b5-1 stock sales during their meeting.
  • With these actions, the management team wants to signal externally how they view the current situation; they believe this is the best solution for shareholder capital and have high confidence in the company’s current fundamentals.
  • The management team simply sees no reason to sell the stock at the current price level.
  • The suspension of stock sales does not apply to all employees, only the executive management.
  • Personal thoughts: A very fine gesture from the management team and the CFO. In the article, the CFO emphasizes several times that the company’s fundamentals and business “momentum” are heading in an excellent direction, and that the stock price has, in his view, detached from reality and is too low. I agree with the CFO, as I bought a ~5% stake in Intuit for my portfolio when the price dropped to around the $450 level. I had a price alert at $350, at which point I intended to buy another 2-3% slice, which would have made this the largest investment in my portfolio. Unfortunately, the price hit exactly $350 during a single day but recovered before I could make the purchase due to being busy. After the price rose, I stayed on the sidelines waiting for a further drop because the sentiment for software companies was so poor. There’s no point in dwelling on “what ifs” too much, though; I’m quite satisfied with my purchase and position size. That addition below $350 was part of the plan, so there’s no reason to deviate from the plan now due to FOMO. It’s nice to see that the company’s CFO and management team agree with me on the company’s outlook.
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@Omavaraisuushaaste has written a brilliant blog post about SaaS companies. I won’t summarize it here, because the post is very extensive and needs to be read in its entirety to grasp the whole idea.

Edit: Here is a topic where I might be on a different page regarding the threat. Esa writes:

”Databases are more difficult, but already doable today – and technology is evolving all the time anyway. The threat is therefore understandable, because if I started a brand-new company today, I could probably code a system with AI in a month that would likely support the business for a long time, instead of buying ready-made software and paying through the nose for its development, maintenance, and license every month.”

One could probably do that, but is it worth it? In my opinion, no. It is still worth ordering that work as a service from the outside. Good SaaS software provides a solid framework, around and within which more and better things can be created with AI assistance, if needed. I can reveal a secret here. Many are already doing this. Personally, I earn my living from it and a little something extra too.

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Agreed. If you are a visionary entrepreneur in sector x, why on earth would you waste your time vibe-coding software when you can buy the same thing at a reasonable price and focus on growing the business. Of course, AI will likely lower the barrier to entry for competition, but larger companies have the capacity to absorb a decrease in margins.

From an investment perspective, the obvious question is how much margins can drop as competition intensifies and at what multiples these companies will trade after that.

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I’m joining the ranks of the like-minded on this point. On a large scale, this is the same as, for example, hiring separate HR or IT in-house. In the beginning, you can get by with creative solutions, but at some point, it’s smarter to hand the ball to someone who handles it with experience.

But on the other hand, I also believe that AI will eat some SaaS players. I am specifically referring to services whose business idea has been to build some automation or similar on top of other services, and where there is little proprietary data or a moat. The unlisted Zapier comes to mind, for example, whose idea is to enable integrations between different SaaS services—for instance, automating various data transfers and functions across different platforms—which are things that agents or vibe-coded solutions are a nearly 1:1 replacement for.

In my own workplace, in addition to the large SaaS services, we have several of these small SaaS services that have solved a small problem and were cheaper than manual coding. Removing these is now the first item on the to-do list. We will either replace them with agents or use Claude to code suitable, simple mini-apps that handle the same tasks. These are relatively easy even from a security/reliability standpoint, as the application/agent can be given very limited permissions only for the specific need, and hallucination risks are manageable.

As for the big SaaS houses, I believe competition will intensify as competitors can more easily close the gap in features with AI assistance, and the offering will likely become more uniform. When you add the Data Act and the generally increased market requirement that the customer can take their data with them, I believe there will be slight pressure on SaaS pricing in the future. Of course, the inertia in switching large systems still exists. This is even assuming that larger firms won’t start coding their own ERPs with AI.

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