Thoughts on economic systems, markets, companies, and people

Hello everyone! I’ve grown to like this forum more because the discussion here is usually a bit livelier and more constructive, but I used to keep a blog on a neighboring site where I shared my more deeply considered ideas: https://www.sijoitustieto.fi/sijoituskeskustelu/sijoitusblogit/paaomasijoittajan-sadekelin-mietteita

The reason for keeping the blog on the neighboring site was that I imagined you couldn’t keep a blog here, or that people here don’t keep blogs. Now that I’m thinking about it again this morning, even that Sijoitustieto blog is nothing more than a topic thread on an online forum, so why couldn’t my blog be in this format? Assuming, then, that keeping a blog is not forbidden or frowned upon here by the rules or generally socially?
If it is, please let me know immediately, and we’ll take the blog down.

If not, I’ll type out the posts I previously wrote for Sijoitustieto here, and let’s see if it sparks a bit more discussion here :slight_smile:

If my blog and the discussion around it remain or develop, then my initial wish for all participants would be that:

-We try our best to understand each other’s thoughts and learn from them, no matter how counterintuitive or silly they might sound at first – if it doesn’t click, ask the other person to explain, and both will learn more about the matter.
-Refrain from reacting negatively or defensively to opposing ideas.
-Let thoughts and ideas speak and develop for themselves.
-Leave people with their identities, statuses, and egos in the background of the discussion.
-Aim to maximize happiness and positive emotions and minimize all unnecessary misery, arguments, and negative emotions.

I hope someone gets excited about joining the discussion (and that keeping this discussion here is even allowed in the first place :slight_smile:)

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Posted on 8 April 2020, my first post on Sijoitustieto:

I’ve been thinking about starting my own blog for quite some time now. I like writing and I’d like to build a good routine for practicing it. I consider writing a great way to train one’s own thinking, and I see both as a great way to improve one’s investing. Public writing like this hopefully also has the added benefit that my thinking will be challenged and developed by people who are considerably more knowledgeable about the subject and more candid in their criticism—at least compared to seeking validation for my speculations among my less-invested friends…

The reason I ended up starting an investment blog specifically is really tied to the events of early this year. At the beginning of the year, I left my previous day job and found myself with considerably much more time on my hands (apologies in advance for the massive amount of Anglicisms my blog will likely contain), which I then began spending on following the stock market and studying investing. My dive into the stock market world really accelerated when the COVID-19 crisis gained momentum and share prices began to plummet. On February 22nd, I probably didn’t understand nearly as much about investing as I do now—not that I understand a massive amount now either—but I concluded that this corona circus was only going to get worse, and I’d rather watch it from the sidelines having sold all my shares. Intuition, luck, following COVID-19 analyses, or whatever hit the mark back then, hit the mark in hindsight. Later, I’ve chuckled at how well the saying I heard, “if you’re going to panic, panic first,” applied to my situation.

As mentioned, I’ve only been involved in the investment world for a couple of months, so my knowledge of these topics is still sooo super limited. I also probably approached studying and reflecting on investing from a rather unusual angle: it’s only in recent weeks that I’ve looked more into fundamental ratio analysis and other so-called basic stuff, whereas initially, I just wanted to at least try to better understand the market as a phenomenon. What players make up the game, who are the losers and winners, what separates the losers from the winners and what is winning based on, what are the rules, underlying laws, and assumptions…? I can try to write down my preliminary thoughts on the market in more detail later to offer up my musings to be burned at the public stake, after which my thoughts will rise on firmer footing than the Ford factories ever did. Let it be said at this point that the more you think you understand, the less you usually actually understand about anything.

Yet the current situation, in light of my limited understanding, is thrillingly exciting. Informed by my knowledge of the humanities—again, an extremely limited one—I give a surprising amount of credit to the efficient-market hypothesis. If we assume that across the pond there are some of the world’s sharpest minds protecting and growing the assets of some of the world’s wealthiest people (and thereby their own), I feel they failed, or at least were predominantly late, in assessing the corona threat. In hindsight and from the outside, it is damn easy to be wise—surely Nokia should have introduced better touchscreens and bought Android before it slipped away… Perhaps one needs to mix in a bit of the system’s complexity: there is a multitude of different players focusing on different things, some of whom have acted at different stages and with different game sense. Furthermore, at the end of the day, there is still a group of humans largely making the decisions, introducing the same messiness into all actions that exists in our everyday lives. Markets may be efficient and rational, but the humans within them are not, and as irrationality grows among individuals, it likely grows throughout the entire system.

So, different players began playing slightly different games at different times, with slightly different drivers, rules, and knowledge—and then suddenly the pace of the games quickens, the stakes rise, and the rules and knowledge are constantly shifting on the fly. On top of that, there are the most complex connections between these games or systems, which are already complex in their own right. And then, in trying to understand these systems, people will inevitably resort to simplifications and make wrong choices—“Kauppalehti said the Dow Jones could drop another 25%, better sell Nokia shares now and buy back once prices have crashed”—just like I did.

Okay, so systems are damn complex and difficult to understand. Now then, moving on to what investing is in my own opinion and in light of my current understanding. Put very simply, I understand investing as a game akin to betting, where you can select your targets based on their risk profile and potential return, your own skill level or specialization, etc. I, the buyer of an asset, am betting that in the future I will get a better price for the asset than what the previous owner is selling it to me for. This other player then has their own drivers, rules, and knowledge based on which they want to convert their assets into another form. That was written in a really simplistic and silly way, so I’ll leave that explanation at that and return to the subject once I’ve thought it through better. People have just as many reasons for making their moves as there are different targets to bet on in the world, so there’s no point in trying to simplify any “future price expectation model.” Usually, you only truly understand something once you can explain it to others somewhat credibly and understandably, but fortunately, just attempting an explanation improves your own understanding considerably and makes you realize your shortcomings. For me, betting as an analogy has provided a way to comprehend investment activity, but on the other hand, I don’t fully understand the nature of these betting targets yet, because that in itself is so complex. For instance, right now I think that the price of a share fundamentally boils down, at its most foundational level, to what price a person is willing to sell something for, and whether there is another person willing to buy it at the price the seller wants. Layered on top of that is a vast pool of sellers and buyers (who are themselves extremely complex actors), intermediaries, real-world operations and businesses, as well as attempts to forecast all of the above.

But continuing on, let’s say that investing is about attempting to forecast the future and placing bets based on that. You’re watching a match with a friend: I get five hundred if the yellow team wins, and my friend gets a grand if the blue team wins. The outcome is impossible to predict in advance, but both have their own complex reasons for placing the bet: I just want to enjoy the match more through the thrill of betting and seem like a laid-back guy, whereas my friend has checked the consensus across betting sites, possesses insider knowledge about the yellow team’s injury list, and needs money to pay his overdue rent. In the long run, my friend will certainly come out ahead more often because he is better at predicting the future. Yet following a single match, he might take a heavy loss, landing him in even bigger trouble with his rent.

In investing, you can choose your betting targets, you can choose who you bet against and how much, and you can try your best to predict the future in the long run better than your average betting counterparty. You can aim to choose a betting target whose future is as certain or uncertain as possible; you can choose extremely dedicated and clever individuals as your betting counterparties, or you can choose casual punters; you can choose small or large stakes; and you can try to gather information to improve your ability to forecast the future—for example, by reading analysts’ assessments of different betting targets and their futures.

In the middle of this messy heap of metaphors, we arrive at why I currently choose smaller Finnish companies as my betting targets. In many cases, you are mainly up against casual punters, because the more serious and dedicated bettors can’t get large enough positions filled, forcing them to bet on targets with fewer casual punters and more participants who forecast the future accurately over the long haul. Many of these targets don’t even have analysts—comparable to betting oddsmakers—who aim to level the playing field by making their forecasts available to those who can’t be bothered to spend extra time forecasting the future for the sake of casual entertainment. In targets that do have a single analyst, the analyst’s influence can be overly homogenizing. Too many people cannot be bothered to make their own forecast about the future, so they rely on the analyst’s forecast and bet accordingly. And this happens mainly against betting counterparties who might base their bets on the exact same forecast, which can shift the dynamic of the betting target from a Blues vs. Yellows matchup into one where the majority assumes the Blues will win, and it simply comes down to who makes the best guess on the point spread. That single analyst’s influence can intensify even further when uncertainty surrounding the betting target appears to have mounted: because of corona, I am even worse at forecasting the future, so I rely even more heavily on the person who, amidst all this uncertainty, seems to know how things will turn out.

And the biggest impact on the betting environment, of course, is the effect that the chain of events triggered by corona has on the thinking and behavior of betting counterparties: gripped by fear, people start looking at the larger targets and how the more serious bettors are forecasting them, without yet knowing for certain the outcome of their own targets. In a large portion of cases, the large targets are certainly linked to the small targets as well: if the smarter bettors begin betting against an asset they previously backed, and it is somehow connected to the smaller asset you are backing, then following the larger targets is certainly wise. A likely terrible example from sports betting comes to mind. It starts raining in the city, and the smarter bettors begin pulling their money from the championship league team that fares worse in the wet—the team might still end up winning, but its winning probabilities have suddenly shrunk, the odds have dropped, and those who previously bet on a win must pay more to get out of their bet. Well, if you have simultaneously bet on a fourth-division match taking place in the city, and you base your betting behavior on the actions of the smarter bettors without knowing their reasoning, you might end up purely by chance being very right, very wrong, or anywhere in between. It could be that the team you backed is also worse at playing in the rain. It could also be that the team is the best in the league at playing in the rain, or that the match you bet on is being played in an indoor stadium without you even knowing it.

If I have understood this dynamic correctly to any extent, it also presents enormous opportunities to place winning bets in the long run. For instance, I can focus on companies that aren’t even followed by analysts, making the targets at least ostensibly more uncertain and riskier, but allowing me to bet increasingly against casual retail investors who pick fun lottery tickets to watch just for kicks. It’s a bit like betting exclusively with a friend on an event that no one else really cares about, but about which I happen to know a tremendous amount. Or I can bet on slightly larger targets and against a single analyst’s future forecast, in which case I’ll likely also be betting against most casual investors who base their bets on the analyst’s estimate. For example, I could place a bet through a bookmaker like NordicBet on some Finnish lower-division league, confident that I can forecast my local village team’s performance better in the long run than some analyst sitting in Helsinki or Malta. Or I can try to make my own estimate and assume the analyst will arrive at about the same forecast, meaning that once they publish it, many will shift their own outlook based on it. And then, of course, there is the option where I believe I can better predict the outcome in the world’s most heavily covered market or a sports championship final, where extremely dedicated people spend days merely predicting the color of the Gatorade poured over the winning coach’s head.

All options likely involve huge risks and varying expected values—it is betting, after all. The smallest targets are hard to forecast for a reason, and people track their progress less closely, meaning it might take a long time before you get enough counterparties to join you. On the other hand, when betting against or anticipating an analyst’s view, you might simply be an arrogant asshole who is wrong, imagining that you can predict the future better or faster as a hobbyist than a professional who does and has done it for a living for many years and monitors the betting target daily. And the larger the stake you place on a bigger deviation from the analyst’s forecast, the larger your loss will be when the analyst turns out to have predicted better, along with the casual bettors who rode their coattails.

Phew, the lengths a person will go to and write just to rationalize to themselves that they aren’t an arrogant asshole. Well, in case it wasn’t already clear from the rambling narrative above and the massive three-month duration of my investing career, I am therefore most likely just a complete idiot perched at the initial peak of the Dunning-Kruger curve.

However, in my opinion, we are currently witnessing a fascinating time in the betting markets, as dark clouds that suddenly appeared over Asia spread into a stormy, globe-spanning monsoon whose nature and duration are very difficult for us to fathom. Even the world’s biggest and sharpest bettors have struggled to get a clear read on its effects across different leagues and teams, but fair weather will return once the rain stops at the latest, and in retrospect, it will again look obvious how this novel storm impacted different leagues and teams. The leagues that benefit from the rain will flourish, some will sail through as usual, and some will practically drown in the floodwaters—while the teams that withstand the rain best will either reinforce their already strong lead or surprisingly surge into pole position.

Next up are my own biggest betting targets during this corona circus, which I likely made purely out of emotion and on impulse, constructing the most fantastic justifications and narratives for them after the fact. I want to emphasize once more that I really am a complete amateur in this field, this entire post is full of solely my personal opinions, and nothing I’ve written should be taken as investment advice or used as the basis for your own investment decisions. Over the past few weeks, I have invested rather small sums into these following companies:

Remedy

Remedy was actually the investment that gave me a bit of—likely false—confidence regarding my investing. Good justifications for this can be found in Inderes’s Remedy thread and report, as well as in Jeans’s blog on Sijoitustieto, so I won’t rehash them. I still need to refine my betting analogy further, but I thought it was obvious that Remedy plays a sport that as a whole benefits from the rain (people are trapped inside four walls, Steam is smashing records, and other gaming companies are being hyped), and Remedy seemed like a team that will thrive in any weather within its own league over the long haul. At the same time, fewer and fewer people were optimistic about Remedy as a betting target, which I saw as a great opportunity to place bets on Remedy. I added to my positions on two further occasions: when I anticipated analysts would issue similar forecasts, and after those forecasts came out. Since then, I’ve sold off my bets because I feel Remedy has grown perhaps too popular as a betting target, and less popular, better-value targets can probably be found elsewhere.

LeadDesk

Now this one falls into the category of “betting against the analyst,” which, as mentioned earlier, is an even riskier business. In most cases, the analyst doing this for a living gets it right thanks to their professional expertise, but this time I wanted to take the risk, even though I am overwhelmingly likely to be wrong and have placed a bad bet. Here is my thought process, however:

LeadDesk landed on my radar back in January when Seppo Saario went so far as to mention the company in a Helsingin Sanomat interview. Generally, I’m happy to take such betting tips because they provide an incentive to dig deeper into a company that a wise investor has, for some reason, deemed a good target. Well, I didn’t end up investing in the company after that because Helsingin Sanomat felt a bit too obvious as a tip sheet, and there were other targets that seemed even more attractive at the time.

LeadDesk resurfaced more prominently on my radar when the whole corona situation went to hell and the Zooms of the world were popping up in headlines. Having personally spent time years ago grinding away at home doing remote sales work using LeadDesk, I began to wonder why LeadDesk was tumbling downhill just as fast as everyone else, even though my initial impression was that it was a stellar team in a league you wouldn’t expect to suffer from this rainy season. Then, right at the bottom of the decline so far, came an Inderes report, which—contrarian that I naturally am—woke me up even further and prompted me to gather more justifications for having already formed the right opinion (as well as, of course, denying anything that pointed to the contrary).

In the previous report, the target price had already been lowered after the sluggishness of revenue growth surprised the analyst, even while LeadDesk’s core business was growing rapidly and the lost revenue stemmed from a divested unit. Well, in the new report, the target price, revenue, and earnings were slashed even harder in a somewhat contradictory manner: the report was attractively titled “corona shouldn’t be a disaster for a remote work software house,” while the new numbers were justified by “short-term growth and earnings outlooks as new sales become more difficult and the growth in demand for telecom services slows down.”

Well, after diving into the CCaaS (Contact Center as a Service) business and the broader contact center industry beneath it—largely with the help of Inderes’s previous reports and the sources cited therein—I had arrived at the conclusion that LeadDesk is an interesting enough betting target to invest in at such low prices.

In the worst-case scenario, LeadDesk is one of those teams, and in that league, that suffers from the rain just as badly as the rest, if not worse. Contact centers go under in droves, LeadDesk rapidly loses a massive amount of its recurring revenue despite its reportedly average one-year contracts, and additional investments into the business come at the worst possible time. An inexperienced acquirer might even worsen the outlook further by enthusiastically yet unsuccessfully buying up smaller local competitors.

In the base-case scenario, which a professional analyst has most likely predicted entirely correctly, LeadDesk is one of those average losers in a league facing quite poor weather. LeadDesk’s new sales indeed become more difficult and demand growth for telecom services slows down, meaning I trust the analyst has calculated their target price of €9.00 entirely correctly, but even that wouldn’t be a terrible performance a year from now.

Then, in the dream scenario of an optimistic idiot like me, lies the unlikely possibility that the analyst has been overly pessimistic or made their forecast using low-quality data at a bad time, and the rest of the investors have joined in on the pessimism and panic. When in reality, LeadDesk could actually be a brilliant wet-weather team playing in a league that benefits from this hurricane. In my own mind, this is an unlikely yet entirely possible alternative for the following reasons:

  • LeadDesk provides its software to the contact center market, where, according to industry reports cited by Inderes, 70–80% still use on-premise calling systems that require a combination of hardware and software. That is, according to my understanding, the entire calling system with its switchboards is tied to a physical location, making it practically impossible to shift operations to remote work. It’s possible I’ve misunderstood this part as well.

  • Well, the share of cloud services vs. the on-premise contact center market was projected before this corona crisis to grow at the following pace: in 2010 it was only 3%, in 2018 18%, and by 2022 it will be 31%, with the contact center market itself growing moderately. So we aren’t necessarily riding in a bad market even without this whole corona mess, which is certainly reflected in positive growth forecasts for LeadDesk and therefore already baked into the valuation.

  • LeadDesk’s business therefore grows through: a) new cloud-based contact centers being established that adopt LeadDesk, b) existing contact centers replacing on-premise solutions with LeadDesk, and c) LeadDesk’s current customers increasing usage, seat counts, and signing higher-tier monthly billing contracts. Now, a) is probably the hardest to predict anything about: hardly anyone is going to ramp up outbound phone sales in this climate, but customer service needs might surge significantly, at least in certain industries—I’d imagine Finnair’s phone lines, for instance, have been ringing off the hook. C) is similarly hard to call; sales teams might try to negotiate their contracts down, whereas customer support might find greater utility in some cases. However, b) is, in my view, the single most interesting betting angle. If you run a small or large contact center that is, say, internal to a larger company (like Finnair) or an independent company to which another enterprise has outsourced its sales or customer service, what are you going to do in a crisis like this? Apparently, according to those industry reports, people in contact centers work in rather cramped conditions at shared workstations on average. Personally, I wouldn’t have the stomach or the lack of empathy to carry on as usual, or to set up some system of working at every other workstation and disinfecting the station after every shift.

  • Maybe it’s just a bet on optimism and human decency, but instead of new sales becoming more difficult, I would believe that LeadDesk’s sales recruitments actually came at the perfect time, and that the market’s shift to cloud services will accelerate aggressively out of necessity right now, rather than just in six months when people have had time to reflect on how screwed they were with these crappy on-premise setups. If this truly is the case and I were sitting in LeadDesk’s CEO chair, I would tune the organization to its absolute peak for these moments, clock in as many new sales as possible, and maybe even try to patch together some hasty video conferencing product development.

  • If I knew how to do those target price calculations, I’d be running all sorts of models right now. At the moment, I just have to trust that the Inderes analyst has applied them correctly, while I am essentially placing a wager that, instead of the current effective target price, things could develop even better than the previous target price. If peer group analysis is one of the methods used, at least LeadDesk’s industry peers have rebounded sharply from the bottoms around the time the Inderes analyst likely performed their comparison.

All of this is pure speculation and the opinions of someone who understands very little about the industry or investing, who has personally invested in these companies, and none of this should be taken as investment advice, if that hasn’t become clear by now… I would gladly hear thoughts and especially corrections that come to mind from people with more expertise. Later on, I should at least write down my investment plan here, so maybe I’ll actually get around to making one and perhaps stick to it under greater social pressure.

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11.4.2020: My second post on Sijoitustieto

Thanks for the reply – the motivation to continue writing grows considerably when at least one person has demonstrably read the opening and found it interesting to some extent! As someone who has worked in the field, do you have any further thoughts or counter-arguments on the goodness of the LeadDesk case – are there things I haven’t considered?

In Inderes’ broader LeadDesk report, the companies Five9, RingCentral, Vonance, and 8x8 were used as comparables. None of these, of course, is a perfect comparable for LeadDesk, as their service offerings and markets are different. All of them make CCaaS software, as I understand it, with a strong US focus, but some also offer, for example, contact center outsourcing, video conferencing features, and other things that react differently to the corona situation than a pure CCaaS software business.

A few jumbled thoughts on studying investing

I thought I’d open up a few of my thoughts on studying investing and learning in general, for myself and hopefully for others too. My own thoughts are strongly based on the books and ideas of two brilliant thinkers: Josh Waitzkin’s (a true super-thinker and learner, who has reached the top of his field in several highly competitive disciplines) The Art of Learning and Barbara Oakley’s Learning How to Learn.

Inderes, in my opinion, is an excellent service for learning about investing, with its openness and principles: people who know more than average about investing do analysis and open up their own thinking. People wiser than oneself are, in my opinion, one of the best sources for learning more, and I would divide the utilization of this learning source into a few different levels:

1. You can follow the actions of people wiser than yourself and act accordingly. If someone wiser than you invests in a certain company, it might be a good investment for you too, but you’ll be left in the dark about when, how, and why that person invested in the company.

2. You can follow the thinking of people wiser than yourself and develop your own thinking and actions accordingly. If someone wiser than you shares their thoughts behind a certain investment or their thinking behind investing in general, you can develop and refine your own thoughts, and based on your developed thinking, perhaps make an investment in the same company or another company that is supported by similar thinking as demonstrated by the wiser investor.

3. You can follow the development of the thinking of people wiser than yourself and try to develop your own thinking development accordingly. If someone wiser than you has come to think in a wiser way than average after, for example, reading certain books or completing a certain study module, you can try to model your own learning, i.e., the development of your thinking, after theirs, because it will likely bring you to a relatively similar level of thinking and competence. At best, it takes your thinking and learning a little deeper and through a different path, making you even wiser than the person you previously considered wise, and you may even think about things from a slightly different perspective, giving your thinking a style that other wise investors might not necessarily think of.

I myself believe that very similar “laws of learning” apply to a wide variety of skill areas, and it can be useful to jump one level higher and learn about learning in general. If you have learned to learn chess smartly, you will likely learn other things faster and more structured as well.

Why learn things in a structured way?

My understanding is that learning simply occurs in the following way. Our brains enter a focused thinking state, where our working memory has about 4 “slots” available to store various things, pieces of information, “chunks.” Our working memory is like a blackboard on which a few things can be drawn at a time, but they are erased within a short period. With focused thinking, we try to move these chunks to long-term memory, which has a complex network of neurons that somehow keep these chunks in memory. This long-term memory, in turn, is like a large and cluttered warehouse that our brains automatically perform various operations on. When we learn, we retrieve chunks from the warehouse onto the blackboard, after which we return them to the warehouse. By working on things repeatedly, we gradually start to remember better which chunks are found where in the warehouse, and they begin to form stronger connections with each other. “Oh yes, the P/E ratio is located in the investing warehouse on the financial ratios analysis shelf.” We start to connect chunks to each other, and thus our working memory can process four chunks combined into one chunk in a single slot, which previously required the entire working memory capacity. The warehouse is tidied over time, for example, when we sleep or walk without focus, whereby things that our working memory has not worked on for a long time are removed from our long-term memory, and on the other hand, related chunks are strengthened and combined into individual chunks on the same shelf.

On the other hand, structure is also important because it allows us to build well-ordered and efficient warehouses. Josh Waitzkin talks in his book about how he has tried to learn different skill areas starting from the very basics, so that the next, more complex things to be learned have a firmer foundation. Take chess, for example. If two beginners play against each other, the winner will probably be the beginner who quickly googled some basic tactics for defending or attacking – ready-made formulas on how to move pieces. At the same time, they won’t learn any of the reasons behind the tactics they use and will be badly beaten by a player who knows the same tactics, knows what they are based on, and can utilize that better-structured information. The player who learned quick tactics, on the other hand, may find it really difficult to develop into a truly wise chess player, because it’s hard for them to go back to learning things from a basic level, as existing thought patterns from quick tactics jam their thinking and they don’t consider it important to learn overly simple things because they have already gotten results with their quick tactics. The player who learned to play in a structured way, however, develops steadily until their working memory processes even the most complex game situations as a whole, considering hundreds of different combinations and consequences of moves as efficiently as a beginner processes memorized chess formulas. In my opinion, learning also works in such a way that you only realize the significance and structure of basic things later, because you don’t know anything about the subject area beforehand, and you can’t know the optimal structure for learning things. Perhaps in some educational programs, the structure has been thought out a bit better, but on the other hand, I perhaps don’t want to imagine too much about the level of thinking in traditional educational programs.

So why am I writing about chess, blackboards, and warehouses on an investment site on my Saturday? I really don’t know. But all these things, in my opinion, have a strong connection to investing. You can either try to cheat the system and try to beat those beginners who know the rules of the game, for example, by following the actions of wiser investors or by using some quick tactics that other beginners don’t realize how to use. Or you can start from agonizingly boring basic things that most hobbyists don’t bother to learn, but which build a stronger foundation for you in the long run, on which to build knowledge that beats even relatively smart investors.

I would like to imagine myself learning investing in some structured way, but let’s see how far I can go and endure in studying this subject area.Finally, a “give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime; teach him to learn and he’ll sell fishing consulting services for the rest of his life” type of questionnaire for wiser investors:

How did you learn about investing?

What has been your path to your current level of expertise?

What are some of the fundamental ideas that you consider most important, the foundational elements of your investment philosophy, that beginners might not think about?

What have been particularly important sources of learning, whether concrete experiences or, for example, investment literature?

Hopefully, someone will have time to respond! smiley

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17.4.2020: My third post on Sijoitustieto

Continuation of the LeadDesk case

I’ve been digging into some quite peculiar sources of information to better understand the contact center industry, and the contact center consultant/research firm DMG Consulting (who knows how unbiased they are), cited in Inderes’ reports, is heavily promoting remote work and cloud services in a couple of new reports, for example this one.

This is already heading into more speculative sources, but I happened to find a subreddit for call center employees, where I found a lot of interesting things (though the people on that subreddit seem to be mostly from North America). Customer service representatives’ workloads seem to have exploded as physical locations in many industries have closed, there’s a lot of panic about pushing large numbers of people into the same office, and in some countries, authorities are even reportedly emptying office spaces.

Panic about one’s workload and the safety of office spaces seems to be a major trend, as is the gradual shift to remote work. If a large part of the market still uses solutions that, as I understand it (I’d still like to get confirmation on this from the technological side), do not allow remote work, I would guess that the transition to cloud services like LeadDesk is already much faster than usual due to this crisis, and also greater after the crisis, once the worst is over and the rationality of on-premise solutions has been considered.

I had been looking for a source of information like that subreddit, which would give a better view into the daily life of contact centers, as I don’t have many contacts in the industry myself. My own feeling (for which justifications will naturally be found later) about this case, however, strengthened, and I ended up buying more LeadDesk, as it conveniently dropped a bit over a couple of days.

This was an interesting thread, for example, and searching for “home” brings up a lot of similar content: https://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromcallcenters/search/?q=home&restrict_sr=1

Let me state here again that I aim to list my sources above, and any thoughts outside of them are purely amateur speculation and opinions, and my text does not contain investment recommendations.

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1 June 2020: my fourth post on Sijoitustieto

A small corona update: Shitty policymakers and good luck in Finland, humanist mumbo-jumbo and investment speculation on the blog

I’ve been meaning to write for a long time, but other commitments took over, leaving no time to look deeper into corona or the stock market. Over the weekend, though, I finally had the time and interest to dive a bit deeper again. A Sunday hangover and the blues naturally fed the desire to plunge deeper into the gloom, at a time when people were being launched into space, protests were raging from Hong Kong to the White House, and in Finland, at least in public spaces, there seemed to be virtually no sign of corona anywhere.

Shitty policymakers

My personal opinion is that policymakers in Finland have done a shittier job than average (compared to peer nations), but so far they’ve just been lucky thanks to Finland’s unique characteristics.

In my view, decisions right now should be made effectively, quickly, and locally, though I naturally understand why that’s not easy in politics given the current climate. It can feel difficult for decision-makers and leaders to appear as authoritative, unwavering pillars of security amidst a crisis when, for the sake of optimal decision-making and communication, they’d simultaneously have to admit that almost no one right now can know for sure which measures work and what will happen in the near future.

The corona crisis shouldn’t be managed as a Finland-wide crisis, but rather as, say, a Helsinki corona crisis or a crisis of even smaller regions. If you look at data for the whole of Finland (which varies massively across regions) and then try to make decisions that apply across all those vastly different areas with a single template, you end up making multiple critical mistakes. Throw in typical political prestige games, an inability to admit past mistakes, the fact that no one knows the right measures with certainty even now, and the uncertainty of whether measures will need reversing in two weeks, and you end up with these farcical face mask debacles. Maybe public sector positions should be made more attractive somehow, just to get some sharper people in there.

On the communications front, there have been some partial successes. The tricky part is the need to rapidly communicate evolving and sometimes conflicting facts, but incoherence in communication erodes the sender’s credibility in the eyes of the public. Personally, though, I think someone like Sanna Marin has largely made me feel proud in terms of communication—heaven forbid we had Antti Rinne right now shady-dealing face mask purchases in person with Tiina Jylhä.

Another issue is international cooperation. In an ideal world, the EU, for instance, could mean that different countries agree on a controlled, phased rollout to test the effects of various measures on containing the virus, and then draw shared conclusions on best practices. In a nightmare world, almost all countries reopen restaurants and borders simultaneously in one fell swoop.

Right now, IMO, you either go in Swedish-style with blind stubbornness, full throttle, and no fear; completely suppress it New Zealand-style; or adopt a strategy where you actively monitor the situation, leverage as much data as possible from different countries and cities, and stay ready to pivot fast on decisions, execution, and messaging. Right now we might be getting the worst of all strategies, but luckily we in Finland might have caught a lucky break.

Good luck and humanist mumbo-jumbo

While I think Finland has had shitty policymakers, we do have the virus under control here for now, even if the economy isn’t.

When I talk about politicians’ luck, I mean that regardless of who was in charge (perhaps Trump and Bolsonaro aside), Finland’s unique traits would have kept corona in check over the spring anyway. In my view, this could change dramatically in the coming weeks, and maybe it already has.

If you went out over the weekend (at least in my town), there were seriously concerning shifts in people’s behavior. Personally, I think the information edge over other investors in navigating the corona crisis right now might come from behavioral sciences, whereas back in late February and early March it came from epidemiology—after which every second investor suddenly turned into a fucking virologist.

Now that governments have tried to squeeze every drop of insight from biology and have been glued to R-numbers, eyes should really turn toward studying human behavior, gathering data, and executing fast, iterative decision-making where necessary.

The last couple of months have undoubtedly been a golden age for all kinds of sociologists and anthropologists, scribbling notes frantically in workplaces and parks. A massive amount of new research and rehashed old theory has come out, and I’d like to highlight a few findings I found interesting:

-Background: as I understand it, simplified, human behavior is driven by attitude, social norms, the intention to behave a certain way, and the perceived control over one’s own behavior. Just going off gut feeling from the weekend’s events, attitudes toward corona have significantly relaxed, as have social norms; the urge to act carefree has spiked as direct perceived risks to oneself and others have diminished; and in true Finnish fashion, binge drinking in parks and newly reopened terraces reduces control over one’s own behavior.

-During corona, people’s willingness to follow rules has correlated with how practical the guidelines have been and how concrete they are to follow. Right now, quite a few people seem to have lost track of what the safe distance was supposed to be, or whether gatherings were capped at 50 or 500 people. It’s easier to follow restrictions when they are clear and tangible, and when the risks of non-compliance are severe, immediate, and terrifying. Stay home and only go to the grocery store at most, or your grandma will die of corona.

-When people have fewer opportunities to socialize in public spaces, people socialize less in public spaces. Simple as that. When it wasn’t allowed or socially acceptable to see anyone outside your immediate household, people complied. Now it might be tough to clamp down on the vibe again when summer is at its peak and everything feels great. A second wave could obviously shatter that optimism bias, but with an unfortunate lag.

-People need positive motivators, not punishments, to behave a certain way. Fines are unlikely to work because the perceived risk of getting caught is negligible, but celebrities being interviewed from home wearing masks might provide better motivation.

-There seems to be this current craze that you can’t possibly catch corona outdoors, because all the armchair virologists know all about aerosol dispersion. As things stand, that holds true, but that sense of safety can also lead people to engage in risky behavior—not bothering to bring your own snacks to a picnic, feeling it’s way more convenient to share a blanket, or not being able to resist hugging a friend after a long break. Throw a couple of bottles of sparkling wine into the mix, shared straight from the bottle, and soon people are shouting, breathing on each other, and hugging like it’s the last day of summer.

-My own guess, not based on any recent study, is that summer alcohol consumption in Finland is heavily linked to risky behavior and, consequently, to the spread of corona. (Not that I didn’t indulge in that exact same sin over the weekend myself.) Kids at school graduation parties certainly handled things with complete recklessness (hopefully the virus transmits as poorly among youth as studies currently suggest), and adults will surely follow suit as attitudes loosen up and the weather heats up. Very soon, corona could flare up nationwide just like in Koff Park, after teens first socialize within their schools, then get drunk across different schools, nurse hangovers at home, and the following week their parents unknowingly spread it at work. To me, it’s completely mind-boggling that parks across Finland weren’t locked down like on May Day. Even if temperature and sunlight have a mildly suppressing effect on the virus, their effect on human behavior remains an open question in my book.

-Finland is culturally interesting in that the connection to nature is much stronger here (as in some other countries), so Finns heading out to picnics and national parks, who are naturally accustomed to keeping their distance and being less loud, are likely a safer bet epidemiologically than their southern counterparts who hang out in large, loud, cheek-kissing groups indoors.

-In Finland (and many other countries), kids aren’t routinely tested, for example; overall, effective testing, tracing, and managing aided by modern technology is sorely lacking, meaning we lack real-time, localized data to support local policymakers. You’d think it would be fairly simple for compliant, tech-savvy Finns to download an app to log their symptoms—like loss of taste or smell, severe cough, fatigue, and loss of appetite—which have been identified in many countries as strong indicators for diagnosing corona.

Investment speculations

Since this is an investment blog after all, here are a few interesting investment ideas (though absolutely not investment advice, as this blog doesn’t provide that):

-If it were possible to short NoHo, I’d do it within the week. Right now there’s a retail herd rushing to invest in the restaurant business because patios are open, but after what I see as inevitable new restrictions, we’ll see a retail stampede rushing right back out. I could easily be dead wrong, of course. If anyone has similar investment ideas to short the restaurant sector and the hype around it, I’m all ears.

-Kamux: I used to own it and sold right around the start of the corona mess, but now I see external factors boosting the potential of an internally solid company. IMO, it comes down to the impact of a recession/downturn on car sales (will used car sales drop, flatline, or actually grow as people still need to buy/replace cars and demand shifts from new to used?) vs. corona-driven behavioral shifts where public transit becomes less appealing and car ownership keeps climbing. If I recall correctly, car ownership rates in Finland are very high, and that’s unlikely to change anytime soon despite aggressive pushes for public transit projects in Helsinki.

-Delivery Hero (and food delivery): I caught a great bounce on this a few weeks back and am in no rush to let it go. Corona hits the restaurant business hardest (along with travel), forcing conservative restaurant owners to find new ways to stay afloat and pushing consumers to adapt to a world where restaurant meals aren’t always eaten at a restaurant. If I know anything about platform business models, the network effects should be massive: a) a flood of restaurants previously opposed to delivery are onboarding as inbound leads, b) hordes of new users are joining delivery platforms due to corona, c) these two feed each other, attracting even more users as their favorite spots join the service. The sector is growing at a breakneck pace (further accelerated by corona). Sure, competition is brutal and margins are thin, but top-tier tech, operations, and unit economics should carry you far. Food delivery is likely just the trojan horse for most firms to crack in-city delivery, opening up grocery delivery before the incumbent retail giants catch on (think Amazon and books). The pushback, of course, is how a recession will impact people ordering takeout, but there’ll be time to worry about and monitor that later.

-Remote-work plays and broad digitization/cloud shifts, e.g., LeadDesk: IMO a no-brainer with massive existing hype around these companies and their valuations, but current prices might only reflect the immediate corona spike, rather than the massive acceleration of pre-existing secular trends. I bet if you look beyond the Zooms and Slacks, there are still plenty of potential upside plays where the real hype won’t kick in until Q2 earnings drop.

-Travel: I haven’t developed any concrete ideas here yet, but I bet there’s a play somewhere that benefits from pandemic-driven shifts in travel behavior and new ways of operating travel businesses. Suggestions welcome.

This turned into a bit of a rambling rant, but hopefully I’ll find more time soon to dig into the data and expand on some of the interesting topics that were rushed through or skipped entirely here. I welcome any thoughts and critiques, if only to help straighten out my own thinking after too much isolated contemplation.

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11.7.2020: My fifth and latest post on Sijoitustieto, plus a response to a response

A little update in honor of a rainy day. Looking ahead at the future of this blog, I’d like to ask out loud (and hope for an answer): does anyone in this world actually want this blog to continue? For me, the original purpose of the blog was a) to structure and improve my own thinking, and b) to generate discussion, thereby improving both my own and others’ thinking. I’ve found more than enough ways to structure and improve my own thinking outside of this blog, to the point where the time spent writing posts is completely out of proportion to the value gained from it. No discussion has emerged here, so my own thinking—or anyone else’s—has hardly improved.

So, if anyone is actually interested in the topics I’ve been rambling about, please share your thoughts, or else I see no reason to keep publishing texts that provide me more value with less effort if kept private .

Investment strategy and why people understand very little about strategy (or, on average, about anything else):

What is human action at its core?

As I’ve outlined earlier in my blog, thinking, ideas, learning, and creativity are pretty much at the core of all human activity, simply because:

  1. All our actions are based on unconscious or conscious thinking (brain processing in the weirdest possible ways).
  2. Our brains process ideas, which are abstract constructs built piece by piece through cognitive work and turning ideas over. Einstein’s concept of the theory of relativity required a few other foundational ideas before everything suddenly clicked into place.
  3. Learning is the working through of new ideas, continuous processing, and transferring between working memory and long-term memory, so that as much of the processed ideas as possible is stored in long-term memory in a structured, durable form, ready to be used in developing new ideas.
  4. Creativity is essentially just an extended version of learning: based on old ideas, we generate a new idea in our brain, which other people then judge as creative or not. Einstein came up with a revolutionary theory, but in a way, he just learned one new thing.

As I’ve shouted into the void on my blog before (with no one shouting back), far too many investors don’t understand these concepts. Consequently, they jump into stock investing after studying a few financial ratios—in my opinion, a terrible long-term investment strategy and a poor way to start structuring one’s thinking.

On average, people also don’t understand the concept of ideas and creativity well enough to, say, smoothly take ideas from one context and copy-paste them into another—while onlookers watch in awe, thinking: “Wow, that’s so creative! That person must be so creative, I could never do that!” The point I’m trying to make here is that creativity is needlessly mystified. It’s a funny coincidence that someone coined the communicative concept of the “creative type” just to explain why certain people supposedly can be creative while others shouldn’t even try.

Similar delusions surround “intelligence” and “status,” simply because people unfortunately never even bother to Google what these concepts that constantly affect their lives actually mean. People remain stuck at a level where they confuse intelligence with status. They view someone as somehow supremely “intelligent” or some kind of “superhuman” merely because, as the outcome of some function, they ended up in a role that a particular social group deems high-status and therefore valuable. In investing, I think Wall Street is a prime example of this: “Well, those folks on Wall Street know what they’re doing, and markets are always efficient. There’s an endless supply of Harvard grads and raw brainpower analyzing these things better than I ever could, so why should I even try to beat the index?”

What are stocks or business activities at their core?

If we look deeply into stocks, on the one hand, they are purely objective, utterly worthless ideas—honestly, one of capitalism’s finest and, IMO, most morally bankrupt concepts. On the other hand, they are an entirely speculative construct accepted by a broad social consensus, and they are somehow linked in the real world to the idea of a publicly traded company. And a public company, in turn, is also just an idea—an idea that enough people believe can interactively become reality. And when it comes to public companies, the fundamental layers are:

  1. The craziest group of people (i.e., management and employees), who believe in the idea of that public company the most.
  2. The next craziest group (i.e., customers), who believe in the public company’s idea enough to trade some of their own value, imagining that what the company provides in the transaction (= product, service) holds more value than their own original asset (e.g., money).
  3. The least crazy are the capitalist pigs putting value (= money) into circulation so that those crazier customer segments can worship their religion and perform their semi-deranged rituals.

I won’t delve any deeper into the concepts of value or exchange here, but based on those three groups, this is how most business operates: customers trade with corporate employees for something both consider valuable; corporate employees scurry around madly trying to execute those trades better than the lunatics believing in a competing company (= religion); and along the way, they skim off enough value to return the excess to the capitalist pigs—who already held the most value to begin with and are laughing all the way to the bank.

I’ll keep these musings brief for now, as I see little point in thinking out loud publicly if hardly anyone gets anything out of it.

What is strategy at its core?

Strategy is fundamentally about competing with another person and trying to do things better than they do across the spectrum I mentioned in the section “What is human action at its core?”: idea processing → thinking → learning → creativity → action. In my view, the exact same applies to chess, golf, and investing alike.

I think Jens had a great point on his blog a while back that helped me organize my own ideas and thinking better, framing investing through a familiar lens. A great example of learning and ideas: Jens modeled investing in the same way as online poker. Both are competitions against others, where you make money by thinking, making decisions, and executing better than your direct opponents. In poker, you can choose your opponents quite concretely, whereas in investing, that choice exists, but in a somewhat more abstract form. If your only goal is to make money as quickly as possible, you should be asking yourself: a) Can I win more money by playing against my current opponents, or b) Are there opponents elsewhere against whom I could win more money faster? and c) How do I extract the maximum amount of money from the opponents I’ve chosen?

In other words, do you stay at your current table full of poker pros (= which could roughly correspond to institutional investors, though not necessarily), or do you move around midnight to the table where rich, drunk, and arrogant businessmen have just arrived with glitter on their ties (= e.g., Finnish retail investors making investment decisions based on pure emotion and Kauppalehti headlines)?

Personally, I don’t believe in “making money as fast as possible” as an intrinsic value—I simply see no personal worth in it. I believe one should organize their human actions and choose their competitors such that they enjoy the competition, maximize their learning through it, and thereby ensure that, over the long run, they will beat most other competitors.

Most people think far too short-term. They don’t invest in enjoyment (which, in my view, is fundamentally one of life’s greatest purposes) or in learning (thus losing in the long run to those who continuously refine their thinking and actions); instead, they just try to cash out as fast as possible. Did someone say quarterly capitalism?

My investment strategy in a nutshell

Now, after a few segues, we finally arrive at the core topic: my investment strategy, which I’ve been meaning to finalize and post here under social accountability for quite some time. For a while, I debated whether I should even publish it, since arguably rule number one of strategy is that you don’t reveal it to competitors who could exploit that information to gain a competitive edge. Then I realized: a) my blog has a minimal readership; b) even those few readers aren’t truly my competitors, even if Finnish retail or institutional investors were; and c) my “strategy” likely holds zero value or competitive advantage for anyone else anyway. I see the competition more along the lines of Finland vs. the rest of the world, because I genuinely believe that, driven by healthy Finnish values, it would benefit the entire world if we had as much capital—and consequently power—concentrated here as possible. Distributed as evenly as possible, of course, rather than hoarded by a handful of capitalist pigs.

Alright, down to business:

Vision:

To be financially independent within five years and a significantly wiser, better, and kinder person than I am today—and consequently a better investor. From there, let the compound effect run full throttle until, within 20 years, I rank among Finland’s best, most influential, and still kindest investors.

Mission:

To enjoy life and continuously develop my ideas, thinking, learning, and creativity, compounding capital through investing, decisively beating the competition and averages in thinking, execution, and the resulting returns.

Culture:

As capital scales to truly significant amounts and begins to wield real impact in the world, I will increasingly incorporate my own strong principles and values to guide my investing. Right now, there’s no need to focus on that; the focus is purely on growing my capital and influence. Investing will fit around the rest of my life, but still remain a semi-active part of it. That is, I aim to extract as many lessons and ideas as possible from everyday life and apply them to investing, without spending too much effort studying investing itself. I don’t find that particularly interesting, nor is it a source of sustainable competitive advantage if all you know is the same playbook as half-wit sub-optimizers chasing money on Wall Street.

Investment Strategy:

I aim to maximize capital both over the long run and the short run, with the latter—through a well-executed strategy—accelerating the path to the former. My decisive strategic and competitive advantages are:

  • My own culture of continuous enjoyment and development, which compounds into exponentially better thinking and a better life over the long term.

  • An inherently strong culture, set of values, and principles that will ultimately outlast and override short-sighted competitors.

  • High self-esteem and confidence, fostering the ability to think differently, take risks, and tolerate uncertainty better than the competition. This is pretty core to investing, where the sheep blindly following the herd get sheared the worst, and IMO, those who back their strong convictions most boldly win the biggest, if not the most frequently.

  • All other factors that set me apart from the crowd regarding cognitive ability, information processing, learning, and creativity. These represent the real core of the strategy—true VRIO material.

Without getting into full OKR territory, a few targets for the coming year could revolve around iterating and validating the long-term strategy, and achieving significantly above-average short- and long-term returns based on this highly exceptional investment environment, which I believe most people still fail to grasp over both time horizons. Right now, my approach is to deploy fairly aggressive risk and leverage into companies that stand to benefit significantly from the impacts of COVID-19, both short- and long-term. Those benefits should ideally be recognized and accepted by the market to a small degree already, providing some hedge against the risk of another massive crash. On the other hand, I operate independently and swiftly; if a crash unfolds, I’m ready to make decisive tactical moves rather than following the herd into passive index investing and mindless “buy the dip” mentalities.

Hopefully, someone managed to read through most of this and felt at least a small spark intellectually or emotionally. At this stage, stranded in splendid isolation within the blogosphere, it would already be a positive sign if someone got pissed off enough by my rambling garbage here to come talk shit and start a little flame war.

User Artsipappa commented:

Pretty good read, definitely keep going. Have you made your vision and mission realistic? Are they actually achievable? Financially independent in 5 years. I assume you already have a pretty massive portfolio? What kind of annual return percentages are you targeting?

Investiget Group’s reply:

Hi Artsipappa, thanks for the message! In my view, a vision doesn’t need to be super realistic; it should be super optimistic, ambitious, and an aspirational dream that provides stronger motivation to grind toward. The mission, on the other hand, is extremely realistic and describes the present moment and the reasons why I invest in the first place.

I definitely don’t have a massive portfolio yet, and financial independence is a relative concept anyway: for one person, a €10k yield is plenty to live on in some cheap, warm country, while someone else has inflated their standard of living so absurdly that they require a multi-million-euro fortune. For me, it’s enough to have the financial assurance that I can spend my time exactly how I want—without anyone having financial power over me or being stuck in wage slavery. In that sense, I’m already in a fortunate position, spending most of my time in ways I truly enjoy.

At this stage, aiming for or forecasting a specific return percentage is precisely the kind of positivist nonsense that the finance and business world is unfortunately packed with. Let’s see how the economy, the stock market, and others fare on average over the year, and aim to beat the competition across both the short and long run.

User Artsipappa commented:

If you aren’t targeting specific return percentages, how can you set a goal of ‘financially independent within 5 years’? What I mean is, usually when people set these kinds of goals—say you have a €250,000 portfolio and need €500k to consider yourself financially independent and live off yields in the future—with a 250k portfolio, you need roughly a 15% average return. If you fall behind, that required percentage for subsequent years naturally climbs quite significantly.

Though €500k is hardly enough for that nowadays, given how hard it is to get any sort of “guaranteed” yield on capital.

Investiget Group’s reply:

Hi again, Artsipappa—great to finally have some actual two-way dialogue going!

This touches on a fundamental problem in human communication: people assume that when someone else uses the word “vision,” it carries the exact same meaning they hold in their own head. This is why I encourage people as much as possible to Google the mutually agreed definitions of words (at least for words they use frequently or fundamental concepts), which academic literature and online dictionaries are full of. Personally, I like an explanation of vision popular in academic literature that goes roughly like this: “Vision explains what the firm wants to be in future and the level it wants to attain and is the communication of dream concerning the future that is desired.”

In short: why modern quarterly capitalism sucks

Here are the key points:

A) A vision does not have the same meaning as a target, and even the meaning of a target isn’t entirely cut-and-dried, considering English uses terms like goal, objective, or end, all of which imply slightly different things.

B) You’re slipping into overly objective thinking here and perhaps didn’t quite catch my drift when I said financial independence is relative. Re-read my previous message and try to truly understand it. You can find more food for thought to develop your thinking along the objectivity vs. interactivity vs. subjectivity axis here: Relativism - Wikipedia Postmodern philosophy - Wikipedia

C) It’s impossible for me to know what financial independence will mean for me personally five years from now: it could mean needing a €5M net worth to sustain a standard of living inflated by consumerism off investment income (my worst nightmare), or it could mean living cost-free in a monastery, feeling no need for material possessions whatsoever—in which case I would also be financially independent.

D) The issue with return percentages as targets is that they encourage sub-optimization instead of focusing my thinking and actions where they belong: on my long-term vision. A year is ultimately a very short timeframe. If I set a target of, say, a 30% annual return, I’ll end up sweating bullets toward the end of the year chasing that metric, making poor decisions relative to my long-term goals. In some years, hitting a 30% return might be impossible due to external macroeconomic factors; in other years, 30% might be so laughably easy that it provides no motivation or meaningful direction.

This is also my biggest critique of quarterly capitalism. Companies (or rather, the people within them—companies are merely an invented religion/construct, not real entities, and therefore make no decisions of their own) are driven to make decisions that are utterly foolish and destructive in the long run, simply to appease capitalist pigs and hit their short-term return expectations, rather than striving to create holistic value for all stakeholders on an ever-increasing, long-term scale. In my view, monetary value doesn’t even exist objectively, and companies (as fabricated religions) certainly cannot possess it intrinsically; value is purely interactive, experienced subjectively by humans. Money has only functional utility as a medium of exchange, and there is a finite supply of it in the world. It is completely idiotic for companies to focus on competing over a finite pool of something with no intrinsic value, when they could stop playing zero-sum games, stop immiserating people, and focus on expanding the total value humans experience in the world. Capitalism in its current form is an exceptionally stupid, poorly designed, and antiquated religion. I view it as comparable to people still believing in ancient deities today—except traditional religions at least teach decent values and bring happiness to people’s lives. If someone in the 2020s is considered eccentric for believing in a religion founded two thousand years ago, why isn’t someone considered just as eccentric for adhering to a long-obsolete economic dogma?

In this global climate, we no longer need capitalism in its current iteration, but rather some form of “happytalism,” where the ultimate objective function being optimized is the minimization of human misery and the maximization of well-being and happiness across humanity.

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Alright, so there you have it, hopefully some potential discussion starters in one direction or another!

When reading my posts, please keep in mind that:

  • I’ve only started learning about investing, stock markets, and economics this spring, inspired by the corona crisis. Hopefully, the quality of my ideas will continuously improve as I learn more and get to discuss them with others. I gladly welcome constructive criticism and new, opposing thoughts, but please be a little more lenient with those early ideas :smiley: If one wants to create new ideas (in their own head or in their own culture), one must be willing to be wrong surprisingly often.

  • Investiget Group is an online identity and an anonymous username, behind which I write somewhat differently than how I actually interact with people. I might also deliberately exaggerate ideas at times to communicate them in a colorful way, to provoke counter-arguments. An internet forum also somewhat limits the nuances of interaction, so apologies to anyone who thinks I come across as an unpleasant type – in real life, I genuinely try to be a nice and kind person :slight_smile:

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Perhaps a bit too much (considering we’re on an investment forum) you focus on semantics and philosophy. That artsy grandpa had good questions, but you largely dismiss them with philosophical jargon.

So, communication/reading might be easier with fewer philosophical answers and instead shorter, more concise ones.

It’s difficult to come up with comments or questions that might get a more concrete answer.

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Thanks for your comment and for participating in the discussion, feedback is always welcome! :slight_smile:

That is, in a way, one of my central arguments for why I keep this type of investment blog and talk about these topics: in my opinion, too much is said about companies’ P/E ratios and other metrics, and too little do we delve into the most fundamental ideas that drive the corporate world and stock markets. A philosophical approach or reflection can be appropriate if the goal is, for example, to consider the ideas and underlying thoughts behind the functioning principles of stock markets or capitalism. Discussing P/E ratios can be appropriate if the goal is to try to discuss a company’s short-term earnings potential. In my opinion, there is already enough of the latter discussion, and it is difficult to create genuinely new ideas based on it, and far too little of the former.

Of course, I understand that I myself fall into the trap of using a lot of terminology that may remain obscure to those who don’t know the meanings behind them and don’t bother to Google them. In my opinion, I did not, for example, ignore Artsipapa’s questions, but answered quite aptly. I can, of course, try to elaborate on my answers more, for example, in the form of drawings or graphs, if that makes my thoughts easier to understand.

This seems to work both ways: it’s hard to get a good, concrete discussion going about abstract topics, and apparently even harder to get a good, abstract discussion going about concrete topics.

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Okay, @Johnnyboy, let’s put it this way: do you want to start by clarifying what you mean by “philosophy jargon,” why you consider it a bad thing, and why you consider it a good thing?

Artsipappa asked what kind of specs were associated with this financial independence of yours, to which he probably would have wanted an answer like

“In 5 years, I should have a 500k portfolio, which I will focus on good dividend companies and try to live on 5% / 25k dividend income. To achieve that 500k portfolio, I would need to get an average annual return of 22% over 5 years. However, that 5 years is a rough timeframe, and I don’t mind if I’m only financially independent in 8 years, and life’s realities may change in the meantime anyway.”

Instead, he received a contemplation of what financial independence means, whether the word “independence” was derived from a hammock, etc.

What are these fundamental things that you think one should focus on more than P/E ratios and such? In my opinion, forum discussions focus well on both numerical (P/E, EPS, etc.) things and contemplation of what makes a company/product/strategy good or bad.

P.S. Philosophical discussion is of course interesting, but discussing it in text format is, in my opinion, very challenging, as it’s harder to know if others are following your train of thought at all and if they grasp your main point.

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So you believe that current global productivity is sufficient if only it is focused correctly and distributed more evenly? The benefit of capitalism to societies has come precisely from the fact that it drives efficiency (read: development) through the price formation mechanism better than any other known system.

P.S. Looks like the Hararis have been read here. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Thanks, that’s a really good message and I understand your point much better now! Maybe I’m still getting used to this forum-based discussion, which philosophical reflection might not lend itself to as well. There are simply fewer opportunities to read the other person and how well they understood something before going deeper into the discussion. But maybe it will get better with practice!

Regarding your first two paragraphs: my point was precisely that I don’t see it as reasonable to discuss or say aloud that “in 5 years, I will need about €1.5M in capital to generate an average of €105k per year with a 7% interest yield.” Because anything can happen in my life; I could just as well be financially independent with €0 in capital, or I could be financially independent with €5M in capital. In my opinion, there are a million FIRE enthusiasts in the world who have done their own calculations for financial independence. Publishing my own calculations doesn’t, in my opinion, create any new thinking. If, on the other hand, we go one level deeper in the discussion, i.e., instead of discussing the topic “how much money do I need to be financially independent?” we discuss “what does financial independence mean?”, we might arrive at a more interesting direction in terms of ideas.

And I definitely need to improve on answering the questions people ask more clearly. In addition to presenting further reflections based on questions or other ideas. So, feedback well taken.

By fundamental issues, I mean precisely my example above: instead of pondering “how much money do I need for financial independence,” we go one level deeper to ponder “financial independence” itself. If you imagine some kind of hierarchy or network of investing ideas and concepts, you can always go deeper, higher, or sideways. For example: the economy consists of different markets → a market consists of both buyers and sellers → sellers are, for example, organizations, companies → companies are an imaginary concept, organizations are a group of individuals → a group of individuals in organizations acts based on these things: motivation, values, culture, yadi-yadi-ya. New ideas emerge when an old way of thinking or an idea is combined with another way of thinking or an idea, resulting in some new way of thinking or idea. For example, combine anthropological and economic thinking, and ponder different brands or capitalism from the perspective that they are modern religions with their symbols and rituals, and consider what would happen to the S&P 500 and its P/E ratios if the Jesus of capitalism were to return from the dead? A really silly and random thought, but hopefully someone got at least something out of it. Drawing would explain these hierarchies and connections a bit better.

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@kabu Thanks, that’s a brilliant comment - exactly the kind of discussion I’d like to see more of :slight_smile:

Before I go deeper, would you like to explain more clearly what you mean exactly by global productivity - some kind of ratio scaled with factors and so on, but what are the factors you have in mind there?

I think I’ve read Sapiens and Homo Deus by Harari sometime, but they weren’t mind-blowing books IMO - Sapiens was the better of the two and certainly opens up the world for many.

By that, I primarily meant the global amount of well-being, which can be thought of, for example, through how much food and other goods and services can be produced. The biggest problem in transitioning to something like “happytalism” (happytalismi) would be that development, also in medicine, for example, would slow down, and the observation that the current standard of living is still quite strongly dependent on fossil fuels in an unsustainable way.

Capitalism naturally has its own problems, but the incentives to do work well are largely in place, and thanks to the price mechanism, resources are allocated efficiently.

Harari strongly came to mind from that thought of “capitalism is a religion.” Both are good books in my opinion, especially Sapiens. :slight_smile:

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I disagree with your premise that business is a zero-sum game. In my view, it is quite the opposite. A business uses scarce resources (capital, materials, know-how, labor, etc.) to create the path that generates the most added value from its chosen raw materials. Let’s take an example:

The fictional company Oja Oy operates in the ditch-digging sector. The company receives an order from a farmer whose field is accumulating water, threatening to ruin the crop. By digging a ditch, the entrepreneur saves the farmer’s crop (= livelihood), but also the livelihoods of the baker and the bread shopkeeper. How is this a zero-sum game, which by definition requires that someone else must suffer?

I agree with the claim that money has no intrinsic value, but it facilitates things and allows well-being to be directed into the mix that benefits each individual the most. Imagine a society without money, where taxes are collected and wages are paid in physical commodities. Every worker receives the exact same basket regardless of personal needs. A person who sees perfectly well has no use for the pair of glasses found in the basket. Meanwhile, at another company, someone else has broken their glasses, but none have appeared in their basket for weeks. Doesn’t the freedom of choice and efficiency of resource allocation brought by money have inherent value here, creating well-being?

I also strongly challenge your perspective that “Capitalism in its current form is an extremely idiotic, poorly designed, and outdated religion.” First of all, you don’t even justify a single one of these claims. Regardless, here are my thoughts:

  1. It is true that capitalism has its flaws, but so far it has enabled millions of people (including Finland) to rise out of absolute poverty into a position where a person can choose how to spend their time (at least to some degree).

  2. I do not believe capitalism was consciously designed; rather, its theory was formulated retrospectively through observation. Capitalism is a natural consequence of two human traits that support survival: greed and laziness. Together, throughout history, these have ensured that humans and their ancestors allocated their limited resources toward activities that provided the maximum amount of food, shelter, and warmth. Evolution is proof that capitalism works (or at least has worked). The person who came up with inventions making hunting easier secured the most meat for their inner circle. Those who put in the least effort to acquire food, or simply weren’t good at it, died off as the environment changed.

  3. Nor do I consider capitalism outdated; rather, it has transformed across eras and adapted to surrounding norms and values. Recently, so-called hard capitalism and pure profit maximization have begun to crack, and companies are investing in environmental friendliness, among other things. This is simply the kind of adaptation that enables survival into the next day, week, and year. These processes and mindsets take time to change because capitalism isn’t anything tangible; it is just a human construct used to explain the world around us. After all, capitalism is whatever people perceive it to be. It evolves alongside time and values.

You compare capitalism to religion, which is fine in itself. All ideologies have their followers, some believing more fervently than others. However, one rationale makes me cringe: “Religions at least teach proper values and bring happiness to life.” What are “proper values”? Values that align with your personal values? What makes a value right or wrong?

Imagine two adjacent houses and neighbors with a tree growing on their property line. One neighbor appreciates the tree because it provides shade from the sun, birds nest in it, and it adds beauty to the yard. The other neighbor would prefer to cut it down because the wind mostly blows its leaves onto their side, and in the winter, they could heat their house with firewood chopped from it. Whose values are right, and whose are wrong?

Values are abstract concepts deeply tied to the era and surrounding society. They are not absolute truths, but rather part of an ethical exchange where society and its members determine the importance of different values.

You also mentioned that religions bring joy to life, but let me remind you of things like human sacrifices, the Crusades, burning witches at the stake, holy wars, cults, and so on. Not strictly related to the topic, but just a reminder that things often have two sides. You seem to imply that capitalism produces no joy. Below, I list a few ways capitalism does generate joy:

  1. Freedom. A person is free to choose work that brings them joy and fulfillment.
  2. Efficiency. Capitalism incentivizes the most efficient use of scarce resources, and that surplus (capitalist production - communist production) makes it possible to support individuals who have fallen behind through no fault of their own.
  3. Poverty. Capitalism incentivizes people to innovate ways to pull themselves out of poverty and improve their quality of life. Provenly, it has already done so.

It’s amusing that you claim capitalism is an “outdated economic religion.” Yet many religions and ideologies evolve over time as texts and doctrines are interpreted in new ways. Secondly, in the 2020s, non-religious individuals remain a global and European minority. Of course, for someone living in a Finnish bubble, religion might feel foreign.

I also want to recall the story of the professor who proposed an experiment to his class when they asked what was wrong with socialism. The class would have three exams, and each student would receive a grade based on the class average. The first exam went well because almost every student studied. The second went worse because fewer studied, rationalizing, “my individual grade doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things anyway.” On the third exam, the entire class failed because only the most conscientious few bothered to study.

This encapsulates the core issues with happytalism. If society simply gives you everything you need, what would you voluntarily do for it? Meaning, work that—without direct compensation—enables all the goods being distributed to you. Humans value things they have put effort and labor into achieving. In a way, work brings happiness. Maximizing happiness is a noble goal in my view, but I argue that capitalism actually achieves this best. It gives the individual a reason and incentive to exert precisely as much effort as achieving their happiness requires. Why would anyone invest effort or take risks if they don’t benefit from it? Is individual happiness more important to you than the common good? I find these ideas rather naive, poorly reasoned, and oversimplified. You claim you want to go “a layer deeper,” yet you fail to present any real substance, merely churning through this “philosophical jargon” metadata from one post to the next.

Furthermore, I don’t see how a person can be financially independent with €0 in capital. Even under total self-sufficiency, you must own (or lease) the land where you grow your food. And living off welfare is hardly what one would call financial independence. Could you please explain how this is possible?

PS. Where does the handle/blog title “venture capitalist” come from?
PPS. Economics is an extensively studied science, examined by people far wiser than us. You would likely have more to offer by sharing your goals and methods for financial independence rather than trying to dissect the anatomy of the stock market. Your opinion on the former question would at least be more valuable.
PPPS. Feel free to keep this blog—I will certainly read it from time to time—but do try to write more focused posts. Pick one small piece and explore that, rather than attempting to reinvent economic theory from scratch.
PPPPS. You have been asked at least three times about your financial independence target, so why not answer with actual measurable metrics, such as euros, percentages, and years? It would also be refreshing if you shared what you intend/want to do with that financial freedom.
PPPPPPS. I thought Sapiens was good, but in Homo Deus, the author’s arguments were rather poorly substantiated and not very objective.
PPPPPPPS. The redistribution of wealth is an old idea, but completely impractical. Even if all the world’s wealth were redistributed today, by tomorrow some would have multiplied it while others would have squandered it.

To be clear, I certainly don’t believe capitalism is perfect or flawless, but I think it’s pointless to blame a human-made abstraction for the world’s problems. It’s much like blaming plastic for polluting the oceans or guns for murder. It is always the human who pulls the trigger (or otherwise mishandles the firearm) or litters plastic into nature. Capitalism has caused massive environmental problems and damage, but it is the duty of policymakers and the courts to penalize environmental crimes with consequences severe enough to make wrongdoing unprofitable. Besides, the environmental track record of China or Russia isn’t exactly stunning either.

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DarkRoast… I wish I could sometimes articulate or write something open the way you did. Although, regarding the content, I don’t see anything in common between religion and capitalism. One is a religion and the other is what actually happens in the marketplace.

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Thanks @DarkRoast. An exceptionally well-thought-out piece. I gained many new perspectives on my own thinking from this. A good example of socialism (professor and student), I haven’t come across it before.

Happytalism will probably become a broader societal consideration if/when automation reaches the point where the number of jobs radically decreases/is decreasing. Anna Kontula (minister) had an idea about this, that robots would also pay tax on their “income,” which would be balanced among people so that everyone’s basic livelihood would be secured. Kontula believes that humans are naturally busy creatures who will find things to do for themselves. I certainly agree with this, but the income transfer from robots to people, in my opinion, brings with it the problems of happytalism that you mentioned.

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Here, Kontula is wrong. Humans will find things to do, but if they don’t have to, that activity is rarely something anyone else would be willing to pay for. Haven’t we seen enough of this “taking the path of least resistance” in the Soviet Union and Mao’s China?

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Thanks for the comment @kabu, it’s a good way to challenge my own thinking :slight_smile:

We agree that global well-being should be at the core of productivity figures. The value of healthy food or products that genuinely bring long-term well-being to people could be a good metric – I haven’t yet had time to develop a metric to drive and define the lower levels of my happytalism.

You’re right, overall development would probably slow down, but it would also be allocated more towards things that promote people’s long-term well-being. So, instead of oil companies continuing to invest larger sums of money to compete over who does the oil business best financially, the question would be greatly challenged whether the oil business will bring well-being to humanity in the long run, or merely misery through its Nth degree side effects (see climate change). Would you like to elaborate on that reliance on fossil fuels for living standards?

Capitalism has its own problems and it has a lot of good sides. I probably wouldn’t dare to stir up trouble on an investment forum regarding criticism of capitalism, unless I had also familiarized myself with its better aspects. In my opinion, if capitalism were updated to fundamentally drive towards people’s well-being or things they value (and somewhat abandon driving and optimizing solely towards monetary value), it could be an even better system. The problem comes from the fundamental decision of whether we aim for human well-being as the most important metric and wealth as its byproduct, or whether we aim for private wealth, and human well-being as its byproduct. In my opinion, the following charts could speak for the former, not the latter.

If people’s happiness or well-being does not significantly increase after a certain point, but increases significantly from the lowest income levels (where most of the world’s inhabitants still are), should we optimize wealth development more towards those income levels, and not encourage people to get richer and richer?

Next chart: I couldn’t really find the kind of chart I wanted, and Google generally seems to be a poor search engine for finding scientific information nowadays. I would have wanted a curve showing the distribution of income levels at different times and across different continents. From that chart, many kinds of conclusions and discussions could have been drawn: what has capitalism in its current form achieved in the US over the last 20 years, and what, for example, has capitalism in one kind of updated version achieved in China over the last 20 years?

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