Training - Well-being for body and mind

[Perttu_Hamalainen]

That’s where the idea came from. In the coffee room, we regularly discuss training, and sometimes there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm. The discussion there might be a bit selfish; not everyone is that interested in the topic.

In this thread, you are free to discuss everything related to sports training. However, let’s keep the discussion focused on training and related matters. Let’s not delve into Finland’s sports success or the upcoming Formula 1 race weekend.

Important rules for this thread:

1. All trainers, regardless of their level, must be respected - belittling and mocking are strictly forbidden.
2. There are many opinions; let’s discuss them constructively, not attack.
3. There are no stupid questions.

Everyone can, if they wish, start with a small introduction about their own training background and current situation.

[Perttu_Hamalainen]

I’ll start this introduction myself.

Age 48. Weight 77kg, height 175cm.

I started gym training at age 13. I had a background of a few years of judo and five years of ice hockey. I was naturally equipped with reasonably good muscular fitness, and the training took hold quite nicely.

I started powerlifting at 16 and did it seriously for about ten years. Along the way, I picked up one Finnish Championship silver in the under-20, under-75kg bench press category. I also won several para-championship golds over the years. I am 30% disabled due to a lawnmower accident involving my left knee. It doesn’t bother my daily life much, but it affected training enough that I would have been at too much of a disadvantage compared to others in the squat. The deadlift went well.

At age 30, my training became a bit more varied, and goal-oriented gym training decreased, though it remained part of the mix for a while. My weight hovered between 82–85 kg at the time. My training included Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Krav Maga, boxing, and wrestling. Entrepreneurial life and children eventually took up all my time, and training became minimal except for occasional bike rides; I had a break from gym training for nearly 20 years. Last year, I started regular home workouts with bodyweight exercises. This January, gym training returned to the routine. My weight had already dropped to around 71.5 kg, and I realized I needed to do something.

Now, my training is balanced around aerobic and strength training. I go to the gym every other day, and at the end, I always do 25–35 minutes of medium-to-high heart rate cardio. The muscle group rotation is every ten days – an old guy doesn’t recover like a youngster anymore. After some initial aches, the training has progressed well; my weight has risen to 77.5 kg, and my resting heart rate has dropped from 70 to 55. The goal is to feel good and reach a weight of about 80–82.5 kg – the right amount for me.

[RahatonMies]

Great thread!

I’m turning 40 this year, height 179cm and weight ~90kg.

Childhood was full of diverse exercise mostly for my own enjoyment and sometimes in clubs, like almost all children of that time. Skiing, pond hockey, floorball (sähly), orienteering, tennis, badminton, Finnish baseball + every year in school track and field competitions sprints, long jump, etc., without any training.
Grinding the bench press started around 8th or 9th grade, from which time I kept a notebook for years where my records and the dates they were lifted were marked. At best, I had to try it many times a day because there happened to be weights made by my uncle at home. Sometimes we did a bit of legs and biceps, plus I liked doing pull-ups. Heaviest weights over the years: Bench 6x115kg, front squat 150kg, deadlift (mave) 180kg. Pull-ups 18 reps and weighted pull-ups, if I recall correctly, a 1-rep max of 30kg. These at a body weight of 90-95kg. All done between ages 22-28.

From then until today, I’ve spent more time not training than training; mostly just regaining almost old results and then letting things fade again. In my thirties, however, for my own amusement, I got my body fat below 10% under Timo Haikarainen’s coaching at dimensions 179/78kg.

Nowadays, I’ve been training again since the beginning of the year, as I’ve gradually found time for it with small children. A couple of times a week lifting weights at my home gym in the evening and one mountain biking session. I’d be interested in starting floorball again. It might be that at some point I’ll try running again too.

What I’ve learned about myself is that the athletic attitude inherited from my parents still carries through. I like to train, and it’s a great way to clear my head. Whenever training is part of my life, I automatically eat better and everyday stress is significantly easier to handle.

Additionally, I like that I have the energy to play with the little kids and my fitness doesn’t run out in the middle of the action. At the same time, I try to pass that joy of movement to the next generation by doing all sorts of activities together.

Oh yeah, and I used to hang out a lot on Pakkis (Pakkotoisto) in the early 2000s. I recognize numerous nicknames here from those times too

[Der_Korbo]

39yo, 190cm, 100kg

I personally got excited about training and exercise only a bit later in life, and I can definitely subscribe to RahatonMies’s idea that when exercising regularly, eating and your mental state automatically stay in better shape When I was young, I was relatively overweight and exercise felt very unpleasant; it was only as an adult that I found the sports and ways of moving that I got excited about and that give me energy.

A couple of years after the army, my weight had reached around 160kg, after which I did a major lifestyle overhaul and started cycling alongside it. As a result, my weight has fluctuated between 90-100kg since then, depending on the season. After that, sometime around age 30, running was added to the mix, but it always felt like a bit of a slog. It wasn’t really until around age 35, when I stumbled upon CrossFit, that I felt like I’d finally found my thing in clanging weights and versatile HIIT workouts

For the sake of variety, I wanted to start a regular gym program for the first time in my life at the beginning of the year. Deadlifts, squats, etc., have been familiar through CrossFit, but I’ve never actually tried following a strict program because CrossFit workouts are so varied. It’s been really nice to see for the first time how the body reacts when the training is, at least in principle, more progressive.

The current program has four training days per week, mainly in the format: deadlift, bench, and some overhead press variation. Or squat, bench variation, and bent-over row. Etc. Basic movements with slight variations, and movements (while big compound lifts stay the same), intensity, and rep counts change every three weeks. On top of this, I cycle to work about 20km/day.

The goal for the first six months is to find my so-called baseline and start building from there. For example, my deadlift and squat results from my CrossFit days have gone up nicely in just a few months. It’s perhaps also easier to challenge oneself when you have an idea of how each set and weight typically feels.

Perhaps what has always been difficult for me is training and the right diet to make muscle stick. Due to my background with obesity, I really don’t want to eat too much, but in a way, that’s what you should do if you want to grow muscle mass. My mind just doesn’t quite accept the weight going much over a hundred kilos or clothes starting to feel tight . I feel like I’m a bit stuck for that reason. In any case, gym training, CrossFit, etc., have significantly improved my well-being and body composition compared to just cycling.

[RahatonMies]

Even during a surplus, it’s worth keeping calories moderate; on average, +300 kcal per day relative to expenditure is plenty for muscle growth. On a weekly basis, this means an average weight gain of ~200-300g, which easily gets lost in the average, making the scale a poor metric on its own in the short term.

How I would go about it is by defining macros and counting calories for a few weeks. Start simply by eating like you do now for a few days. This gives you a feel for what each portion contains and how much you’re currently eating. For macros, you could roughly aim for 2g/kg of protein (in a surplus you can even drop this; according to current knowledge, 1.6g/kg is enough for muscle growth, especially in a surplus), 1g/kg of fat, and the rest from carbs. A basic plate model (lautasmalli) is a very good foundation; as for supplements, you don’t necessarily need anything at all—if you want to use something, whey and creatine will do just fine.

Once you have a more or less standard dietary pattern, repeat it and monitor your progress. Is the weight on the bar going up? Are you hungry? Is your belt getting tighter, or is it the sleeves of your shirt?

There’s no need to be overly precise; this is another “sport” where results are made in the long run, not in a single day. Do things in a way that you can sustain, and don’t stress about it too much. It doesn’t matter if you only get 1g/kg of protein one day or miss a workout the next; the big picture is what counts. Even a less-than-optimal way of doing the right things will take you much further than doing things in a way that makes every day a misery.

From the literature, I can recommend, for example, Timo Haikarainen’s books on muscle growth and fat burning. Hiring a good coach is also an option. These days, employee exercise benefits can even be used for those. I can recommend at least Mikko Elmen, Markku Tikka, Timo Haikarainen, and Utti Hietala. Let’s also add Juho Suomi and Joni Jaakkola to this list.

Back in the early 2000s, by the way, the generally accepted method was the “dirty bulk” (sikabulkki)—eat as much as your stomach can take, and the hardcore guys would even wake up at night to eat more. You’d bloat up like bread dough, and a large enough sweatshirt would suggest that it was all pure muscle

[JMP]

31 years old. 173cm and 88kg.

Before the army, I weighed 72kg. There I got hooked on gym training, and over the years, my weight rose to around 80kg. In winter, I hit the gym 4 times a week, and in summer 2-3 times, plus cycling 1-2 times.

Well, then I found my current wife, and training became less frequent; hard workouts and runs were replaced by peaceful “park walks.” I still ate the same way as when training hard, so my weight insidiously crept up to almost 100kg . After a break of several years, I tried to get back into gym training, but I couldn’t find the spark or interest for it anymore.

During the COVID years, I bought my first proper mountain bike, and that was it In the winter, I also got excited about skiing. Just recently, I got a Gravel bike as my second bike, and that turned out to be a perfect choice. With it, you can easily do up to 100km rides, and it doesn’t matter if you hit gravel roads in between. Currently, my training consists of small home workouts (push-ups, squats, dips, abs/back exercises, and kettlebell) and, depending on the weather, MTB/Gravel or skiing. This feels like the best combination for me. Cycling is nicely liberating, and you get to experience the beautiful Finnish nature. Same thing with skiing. I own skis for both classic and skate skiing. Last winter was spent entirely on classic skiing. Additionally, for next winter, I intend to get an indoor trainer setup for my bike.

Gradually, my weight has started dropping back toward the 80kg mark, even though I haven’t started any actual diet. I just returned to an active lifestyle. I eat normally and treat myself one day a week. No binging on treats, just a small portion of, say, candy. At the same time, we try to keep that one candy day a week for the kids too.

In the future, the plan is to start participating in those Finnish MTB events. We’ll see when . Maybe in a couple of years, once this busiest phase of everyday life with kids starts to ease up.

[Der_Korbo]

Thanks for the answers and ideas! That calorie tracking stuck with me from 15 years ago, and I still subconsciously count them daily, so I have a pretty good feel for my eating. Good to hear that muscle growth is possible with even such a moderate surplus. My mental image probably comes from that dirty bulk era I’ll have to look into my macros a bit more closely

By the way, what kind of progress in training is typical if you already have a few years of background? In the last few months, I’ve been able to increase my levels quite a bit, for instance, by almost 30 kg in the squat and deadlift (I haven’t tested 1RMs, but for example, doing 4x125 kg squats). As I see it, this is more about technique improving; where in CrossFit those movements were done a couple of times a month, now it’s twice a week, and somehow the feel for what the body can handle is much better.

[Perttu_Hamalainen]

@Der_Korbo

What kind of progress is usually typical in training if you already have a few years of background? Now in a few months, for example in the squat, I’ve been able to raise my levels quite a lot, by almost 30 kilos in the squat and deadlift (I haven’t tested one-rep maxes, but for example, doing 4x125kg squats). In my view, this is more about technique improving and if during CrossFit the movement in question was done a couple of times a month, now it’s a couple of times a week and somehow the feel for what the body can handle is much better.

I think this is a difficult question and it depends so much on the individual. You’ve built a good foundation from CrossFit and now that you’re apparently looking for more strength, the results will progress quickly at first. I recommend also trying a longer recovery just as a test. For me, training legs twice a week would be completely impossible in terms of progress, which is why I now train each muscle group once every ten days. I actually did this after I turned 25 and it helped a lot. I’ve split my training so that I can go to the gym often, but the rotation is long. This allows for a good focus on one targeted muscle group at a time. Fat management is, as you’ve probably noticed, also individual. Some people can eat whatever they want and it doesn’t show anywhere. They don’t gain much muscle mass, but fat is conspicuous by its absence too. For someone else, fat can accumulate very easily and it’s hard to lose without performance dropping at the same time. My recommendation is to keep the diet quite strict if fat accumulation is an issue. It’s easier to follow slightly slower progress in results than to have them crash later during a diet. I happened to win the genetic lottery where I only eat if I’m active. That’s why my weight dropped so low. There was no training and my work changed from the factory floor to an office.

[RahatonMies]

Regarding muscle mass, many have simplified and heavily generalized progress like this:
By doing everything optimally, a man can gain 10kg of muscle mass in the first year of training, the maximum for the next is 5kg, the third 2.5kg, and the same pattern continues so that no one ever actually reaches their absolute maximum. In practice, however, no one trains that optimally from the start, so progress is spread over a longer period. Additionally, individuality comes into play, and body proportions must also be taken into account.

Regarding strength, I don’t dare give any estimates; I believe @Perttu_Hamalainen and @Sijoittaja-alokas have more to contribute on this. Initially, progress is of course rapid, and simply performing the movements more frequently teaches a more efficient way to execute them, if the goal is maximum strength. A bodybuilder, on the other hand, tries to perform the same movement by maximizing the load on the muscle while still ensuring the mechanical tension level is sufficient, so they don’t end up just “lifting pencils.”

[Con4n]

Male, 35, 89kg, 184cm.

Exercise has always been close to my heart—badminton, jogging, going to the gym.

A few years ago, I got more into gym training; now I go a couple of times a week. Mostly basic big lifts: squats, deadlifts, and presses. On the other hand, my focus is currently on endurance again, and my weight has dropped from around 95 kilos. It’s more enjoyable to play badminton and handle everyday life when your endurance is in good shape as well. My goal is to maintain and even further develop both strength and endurance in the future.

Our first child is arriving soon, so I’ve been wondering how to fit exercise into daily life with a baby. Tips are welcome I’ve been thinking that there will definitely be fewer training sessions, but I’ll just have to keep the intensity high enough for the time I do have.

[P-G]

@Con4n

Our firstborn is arriving soon, so I’ve been wondering how exercise fits into daily life with a baby. Tips are welcome I’ve sort of thought that there will definitely be fewer workout sessions, but I’ll have to maintain a high enough intensity in the ones I manage to do.

I have nearly two years of experience with this situation now, and in my case, it has reached the point where I don’t dare maintain a massive intensity while dealing with this sleep deprivation. Instead, I’ve adopted the mindset of trying to do “at least something” a bit more often, if the situation allows.

It can be tough at its worst, and a lot depends on what kind of sleeper the little one is and whether your spouse has the energy and understanding to take the lead so that you can get time for workouts. Personally, it’s mostly just been light, quick workouts lately.

[Con4n]

Yeah. I definitely need to mentally prepare for the fact that there won’t be much of it. It’s probably true that if you’re tired, you can’t really go that hard. The main thing is probably just doing something and not letting your diet go completely off the rails. Then we’ll see. And of course, exercise drops a notch on the priority list anyway

[Perttu_Hamalainen]

@Con4n

Yeah. Definitely need to mentally prepare for the fact that it’ll be scarce. It’s likely true that if you’re tired, you won’t be able to train very hard. The main thing is probably just doing something and not letting the diet go completely off the rails. We’ll see how it goes then. And of course, exercise drops down a notch on the priority list anyway

It’s good to be kind to yourself and accept that life changes with a child, and training along with it.

As soon as possible, make going outdoors with the child a routine. You can push the stroller at a brisk pace and do some walking lunges on the side to the delight of passersby. If you happen to live somewhere with an outdoor gym, then perfect. Your spouse probably won’t mind the bit of “me-time” you enable for them this way. As a result, your relationship will thank you too. It won’t replace the gym entirely, of course, but it can be a nice change of pace and you get to spend time with your offspring at the same time.

[Jussi5]

@Con4n

Our firstborn is arriving soon, so I’ve been wondering how to fit exercise into everyday life with a child. Tips are welcome I’ve sort of figured there will definitely be fewer workouts, but I’ll have to maintain a high enough intensity in the ones I manage to do.

In our family, my spouse was at least thankful when I eagerly took the little one out for stroller walks, giving them a chance to rest too. Otherwise, working out would definitely have been sidelined. Our stroller was also good for pushing with one hand while running alongside it. Then a top investment was a bike trailer. During a ride of over an hour, the child sleeps comfortably for their nap .

[Beornegar]

Man, 35 in the fall. ~187cm, ~100kg.

Very active as a child and youth, I played ice hockey in a team until I was 16. In my free time, I played pond hockey, football, and basketball with the kids in the neighborhood. In the summers, Finnish baseball camp, and I took every possible elective PE class in school.
In high school, I started regular gym training; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu became my main sport, accompanied by judo and even Shorinji Kempo just to join a friend. So at my peak, I was doing three martial arts sessions a week + three gym sessions. Back then I had the energy, but nowadays my body would call it quits after a week .

I’m still interested in exercise, but time seems to be at a premium. I go to the gym a couple of times a week, and that’s where I put the most effort; I’ll sacrifice other hobbies if I don’t have enough time otherwise. I’m also interested in bouldering and padel, but I do them so infrequently that there’s practically no progress—it’s mostly just for fun .

At the gym, I’d be interested in developing max strength, maybe even some strongman-style lifting. However, the obstacle is that I value my free time I also like to sit at home playing PlayStation and listening to music. With this lifestyle, progress at the gym has almost stalled. My working weights have stayed at nearly the same level for a couple of years, with very little growth. Partly, I’m also quite cautious. If the fourth rep feels at all difficult, I won’t even attempt a fifth, even though it would likely go up with a spotter.

Over the years, I’ve modified my gym routines so that I don’t spend all my time at the gym, but still get a good full-body workout. One day I do bench press, squats, and lat pulldowns. The other day is incline bench, deadlifts, and seated rows. Occasionally, I’ll add lateral raises and bicep curls to either day.

[Con4n]

This sounds really good. Need to implement it then.

[Der_Korbo]

@Beornegar

At the gym, I’d be interested in developing maximum strength, maybe even strongman-style lifting.

Definitely! I wonder if anyone knows if there’s a gym specializing in strongman-style lifting in the Espoo area / Helsinki metropolitan area? The current program I’m following is based on a program picked from the Untamed Strength gym and Alan Thrall’s channel, and I’ve really taken a liking to his training style anyway. If that gym were in Finland, I’d definitely be a member.

[Denny]

Great thread!
Strategic numbers: 44-year-old male, 180 cm, 82 kg.
Sports—not just exercise, but especially sports—have always been an essential part of my life. Inherited from my father. I competed in roughly ten different disciplines, even more if individual competitions are taken into account. Football and ice hockey were my main hobbies from the age of 5, but competing started with track and field and endurance sports (skiing, orienteering). This was largely due to my father’s main sports. Skiing continued until about age 20 (orienteering for 5 years longer), until focusing on ice hockey forced me to prioritize training toward strength and speed. Although the old man has always been pure muscle, my genetic makeup has been of the “endurance comes easy, but muscle is hard to gain” variety. Of course, the endurance base was no disadvantage in ice hockey either. I was probably in peak condition at age 25, when my body fat percentage was around 7% and my weight was approx. 85 kg. In the Cooper test, I did over 3000m with a 10 kg weighted vest. It was quite a sudden stop at age 26, when one knee turned completely sideways in a tackling situation and pretty much everything possible broke. It was a very tough place to be mentally. I tried to return to the ice, but the knee couldn’t take it. There was a break from sports for a while after that. Since then, the gym, jogging, golf, and even skating have come into the picture. Skiing (one of the best sports for the body) is in the “now I’ll start it again” category every winter:
Sometimes there are relatively long breaks from exercise (partly due to work busyness and partly due to a herniated disc), but now there’s a good boost going again, and with the “5 am club,” I hit the gym 3-4 times a week + jogging and other training on top. I will be eternally grateful to my father for helping me get started with sports from a very young age. Learning technique, starting from track and field events, has been a very good background. A proper diet is the only thing I learned on my own during my teenage years.
At the moment, on the other hand, my own son is a big reason for wanting to keep myself in shape.
Working out at the gym is very simple nowadays:

• Chest, shoulders, triceps + legs and core
• Back, biceps, shoulders + legs and core

Those are then rotated.
Due to the herniated disc, I have to adapt several movements, but on the other hand, doing something like a standing overhead press is not a bad move for the core either.

Someone mentioned Pakkis (Pakkotoisto) and it was a very familiar “format” in years past I haven’t opened the forum in years, but I suppose it’s still alive. I can’t remember off the top of my head how many Pakkis meetups I attended + the Suomenlinna ones. Those were fun times and greetings to the other “cult members”

[MM55]

It depends a lot on your little one—whether they sleep well and so on—but also on both of you as parents and how you’re coping. Daily life changes…

My own little one is almost 20 now and still joins me for runs, bike rides, the gym, and long walks lasting several hours, even abroad.

Personally, I didn’t change anything about my hobbies; when my child was born, I went to the gym about five times a week, plus runs and floorball, on top of work. At the gym, the baby was with me in an infant car seat. We took turns with the child’s mother for runs and floorball practice so that she would also get some free time.
You can easily work out at home with a young child; hold the child in your arms while doing squats—it’s the best quality time.

As they grew, I’d bring drawing supplies and all sorts of toys to the gym, so they were happy and didn’t get bored.

Of course, I wasn’t at the gym for hours on end; usually just an intense hour-long workout, and then off to the park to play

I went to a municipal gym, so I don’t know how private gyms feel about it.

[Remmiinajo]

A man in his 50s, 190+cm, 90+kg.

My life philosophy is that muscles are meant to be used, because that’s why we have them. This means getting from place to place using my own muscles whenever possible, mainly by bike.

Clearly, the vast majority of my annual exercise is cycling, but in addition to that, I do moderate gym work—at least once a month and at most once a week. For 4-5 months of the year, I might also do an additional (an)aerobic workout at the gym.

My gym fitness isn’t anything special because of the training split. However, I can do 10+ pull-ups, and a couple of weeks ago I did 3x10/70kg on the bench press, which I was very pleased with.

I have had an annual fitness test that I’ve had to pass: 2000m indoor rowing at a pace under 1:50/500m. This winter, after passing the test, I changed the future format to 20 min indoor rowing at a pace under 2:00/500m, which is a bit more humane for a recreational exerciser.

As it looks now, an active lifestyle will stay with me for the rest of my life, health permitting. I have physical performance goals set decades into the future (if my days last that long).