Socioeconomic Background and Investing

[Wappie]

In this thread, forum members can share their socioeconomic background and its impact on their own investing. The topic can also be discussed generally without revealing one’s own background. Have your parents or grandparents invested? Have you received an inheritance? How has your parents’ socioeconomic background influenced your education, working life, networking, and thus investing?

Traditionally, investing has been seen as an activity for the upper class, something ordinary people shouldn’t get involved in. In recent years, however, Finnish popular capitalism has taken steps in a good direction. The Inderes forum, other investor communities, investment influencers, young investment authors, podcasts, etc., creating a buzz that introduces investing, especially to young people (and increasingly to women), has in my opinion increased public interest in investing. My assumption is that this forum is frequented by individuals from wealthier-than-average family backgrounds, as well as, in a way, the first pioneers of their families. For example, in the Salary Discussion thread, I have happily seen people from very different income brackets, but that doesn’t yet tell us what kind of backgrounds the writers come from. Sensible saving and investing is undoubtedly good for anyone’s future, so I hope the discussion here will spark thoughts on how to get Finns to invest even more widely. That would be good for all of us living in Finland. Inderes is in a good position as a producer of investment-related content and can even directly influence this matter.

I can start the discussion a bit from my own perspective. I was born and grew up in a small rural town. The “rich” people in the locality were doctors, pharmacists, and a few local entrepreneurs. My parents did not go to university, but they had quite good jobs and earned a little more than the average Finnish salary. As a child, that was enough for me to be bullied at school for supposedly being born with a silver spoon in my mouth. Yes, our family had a slightly better standard of living than most of my schoolmates’ families, but at no point in my youth did I encounter people who were even slightly wealthier than the middle class. In our family, investing was not discussed. Lottery draws were followed, though. Hard schooling, a strong work ethic, and sports were highly valued. I gained valuable skills and a can-do attitude, but no one really knew how to show me direction in life. No one knew how to advise what and where to study or what to do with the money earned.

The army opened my eyes tremendously. I saw all kinds of people there, but especially RUK (Reserve Officer School) was a bewildering experience. Suddenly, many around me came from so-called top high schools and were going to study mainly in a few of the most prestigious university fields in Helsinki. Some of their parents had very highly paid jobs and, in general, professions that were completely unknown in my small town. The same continued when I went to university. My friends’ fathers were doctors, CEOs, and millionaire entrepreneurs. A common observation I made about many coming from wealthier families was that their work ethic was often not quite on the same level as those from more modest backgrounds. It was as if the world was more readily prepared for them, regardless of their academic success. Free time and the joys of life won out for them, while I grinded through my studies as best I could. Of course, most of them were very smart, and they managed their studies with relatively little effort, though not necessarily with the best grades. Those didn’t matter. Investing was already a familiar concept to many of them. Wealth already existed and was managed in various ways. Only at the beginning of university did I get to build my investment wealth from scratch, but fortunately, I did so even then. Undoubtedly, all my preceding experiences led me to discover investing relatively early, regardless of my background. I had realized that the rich could always hire some more diligent upstart to do the hard work and collect the profits. Instead of just grinding, it was worthwhile to put money to work to generate new money. The compound interest effect will, over the years, lead to wealth at least to the level that was considered “rich” in childhood. Getting rich is not a goal in itself, but the freedom and opportunity to influence life that increased wealth brings are worthwhile pursuits. My parents are still working hard as retirement approaches. I don’t know if I want to work in the same way at the same age, but I hope I will have the freedom to choose then.

[Ziibra]

Over 30 years old. My childhood and youth were wonderful; I had plenty of friends, a loving family, and a nice extended family, plus I got to play team sports. Mom’s education: barely scraped through comprehensive school. She was pretty much unemployed throughout my childhood, except for some short-term jobs. Dad’s education: barely scraped through comprehensive school. He’s been in “sh*tty jobs” since he was a teen, working long days whenever they were available. They kept drumming it into me that I had to finish school properly, and for that, I’m truly grateful. Practical help with homework or career choices was pretty much zero… and I don’t really blame my parents for that, since the capacity just wasn’t there. I learned a lot about managing my own money and saving for things I wanted as a kid/teen, and any slightly larger “non-essential” purchases always had to be handled by myself: TV, Playstation, rental deposit, driver’s license… so-called essentials (bicycle, skis, skates, etc.) I got as birthday or Christmas presents. So, I can proudly and honestly say that absolutely all my wealth is self-made. I didn’t get a single penny as a “nest egg.” Aside from occasional, brief moments of bitterness and envy, I’m very proud of it.

Investing has always been a red rag to my family and relatives for some reason. It somehow carried all the latent bitterness my parents felt toward society. Investing was perceived as selfish “hiding of money.” My extended family even had some quite strong communist traits in miniature; if someone had “extra” money, it was automatically used for the good of the clan. Heaven forbid if someone in the family had started investing their extra cash. Well, I’m the only high school graduate in the family, so there weren’t many extra pennies to begin with.

When I “back then” told my father I was investing, I initially received quite an angry and bitter lecture. Naturally, arguments and facts didn’t play a lead role in that lecture; instead, it was the family’s “unspoken rules” and “life experience” rooted in a basic education background. I’ve continued investing nonetheless, because on the threshold of adulthood, I decided to reject a large part of my family’s “life wisdom” and study and be interested in the world enough to create my own wisdom. My portfolio is only a modest €20k, but it’s exactly that same amount larger than all my other relatives’ combined.

Nowadays, my parents do appreciate my achievements and are happy that my family is doing well financially, along with other areas. I get by okay, but I’d still claim to be in the bottom 10% in terms of wealth on this forum If I ever “actually” get rich, I believe the rest of my family would, directly or indirectly, “demand” their share of the wealth I’ve earned MYSELF.

Edit: Out of curiosity, I checked the effects of parents’ education levels on children’s education. I have a Master’s degree from a University of Applied Sciences (YAMK). 7% of sons of mothers with only a basic education complete a Master’s level degree. For sons of fathers with only a basic education, it’s 8%. (Vanhempien koulutus vaikuttaa lasten valintoihin | Tieto&trendit) I didn’t find a statistic that showed the prevalence of a child/son having a Master’s level degree when both parents have only a basic education. In any case, this certainly added to the pride I allow myself for my achievements

My envy isn’t categorically directed at the rich, but more at those rich people who received so much right at the starting line. In those cases, building wealth is many times easier. I am constantly trying to get rid of my feelings of envy, and I’ve been quite successful at it already.

[Ituhippinen]

I’ve shared a bit in some other thread already, but since the idea of this thread fascinates me and it’s nice to read others’ stories, I’ll briefly tell mine too.

I’m a bit over 30 years old and I get to be a father to a little girl. I was born into a family where there had never been any university graduates, and only two people in the last four generations had finished high school. There was also one entrepreneur in the family, and everyone else worked in blue-collar fields. I was the first in my family to get a degree. After me, my brother also went into higher education.

My parents were blue-collar workers without any formal training. Well below the average salary. A great childhood, a loving family, where there was always everything we needed. They just worked more so that the necessities could be acquired. There was some off-the-books bar work, which gave the family money for traveling, and thanks to that, I’ve been able to see quite a bit of the world.

I haven’t received an inheritance, and there isn’t one coming in the future either. Investing was never discussed, and my parents wouldn’t have had anything to contribute to the subject anyway.

In terms of salary bracket, I’ve already jumped a few percentiles from my parents. Has it brought more happiness? I doubt it . I can provide my child with everything she needs, and set aside a little for her future as well (I’m just a hair below average income).

Although socioeconomic status is very strongly inherited, this pattern can be broken “easily” with a good upbringing and a touch of luck in the lottery of life (the child’s social circles, interests).

[Gadus]

@Ituhippinen

Although socioeconomic class is inherited very strongly, this pattern can be “easily” broken with good parenting and a dash of luck in the lottery of life (the child’s social circles, interests).

That’s an interesting point as a side anecdote, even if it’s not being discussed here. Socioeconomic status is a complex case, and even if the education level isn’t top-tier, an investment in general knowledge and the like likely improves chances in the dating market, for example, through shared interests. A construction worker doesn’t have to be interested only in the latest round of the NHL, even though certain stereotypes tend to be cultivated.

My starting points weren’t anything special. Since my parents are from the countryside, a good education couldn’t be provided, and the standard of living was such that even mild scurvy was a concern, so socioeconomic matters probably weren’t much on our minds. My mother did manage the household finances and taught frugality, but I suppose the interest in financial matters also stemmed partly from chance and my own interest.

By the way, it will soon be 20 years since I opened a book-entry account as a teenager under twenty. I still remember how the bank lady warned me about how expensive things were in the market and how the IT bubble had recently burst. We finally got it opened, and it has gone well. One’s own interest and passion for studying things carry you much further in this pursuit than any school or degree.

[Toivorikas]

An interesting topic. My background is from a middle-class urban family where my father had holes in his pockets—all the money was spent by the next payday at the latest. We lived in a rental, and there was never money for anything other than the most important thing: my father’s drinking. I got some small weekly or monthly allowance as a child, always less than my friends. I learned to be frugal as a young child; I didn’t want to follow the path my father had paved.

After moving out on my own, I’ve always made sure to have buffer money in my account, regardless of whether I’ve been a low- or high-income earner, likely due to some kind of childhood-instilled need to manage on my own. My spending has always been kept below my income; during my student years, I got by on very little.

As soon as I was able, I started investing in stocks, around my early twenties. The portfolio has been emptied several times, for example due to home purchases, and a couple of times I’ve taken such a beating in my investments that I’ve panic-liquidated everything and, at worst, let savings sit in a bank account for far too many years.

Now I have enough years and experience that my risk tolerance and understanding of risk-reward ratios have improved, as has my financial situation. My stock portfolio is already quite substantial relative to my income level, and my income level is also quite good; I easily fit into the top one percent of Finns today in terms of earned income.

My mother worked in fairly low-paying jobs throughout her career, but managed to save into a life insurance policy where some money accumulated over decades of work, and she has since entrusted the management of those savings to me. My father taught me that stock investing is idle speculation and, at best, a zero-sum game. He has always been envious of the well-to-do and is clearly just as envious of me; he’s probably mostly just puzzled as to how it’s possible that I’ve ended up among the affluent. I have no siblings, so there are no points of comparison in that regard. My spouse is even more frugal than I am—I wonder if that was a subconscious selection criterion.

[Capo]

I am already a bit over 60 years old and an only child raised by my single mother. My father died when I was 3 years old. My mother spent her career as a clerk and was quite tight on money. She taught me how to save; my weekly allowance was put into an OP (Osuuspankki) Hippo piggy bank and later deposited into an account. So, from home, I was encouraged to save and use money “sensibly.” For example: it’s not worth buying on installment, you should save for a car instead of taking on debt, etc.

Investing started with Osuuspankki’s pricey retail funds (tuulipukurahastot) somewhere around 2009–2010. We had already risen from the depths of the financial crisis. Stocks came into the picture in the fall of 2020, and the portfolio is nowadays quite “boomer,” with the main focus on index and even bond funds. Then there is a small, riskier portfolio. The more age, the less risk.

My financial situation is quite prosperous, and there are at least a couple of significant reasons for this. Unemployment has avoided me. I got a job right after military service. After a few years (1986), my employer suggested further education at a technical college (Teku) on study leave. I completed my studies, and my earnings increased significantly.

Secondly, I am childless. My wife has adult sons, to whom my wealth will eventually go.

Thirdly, there is, of course, the sensible spending I mentioned. It doesn’t mean obsessive stinginess, but I often consider whether I actually need a new product. Nowadays, more money goes toward experiences and traveling. Enjoying life. My wife once aptly noted that I am very frugal in some matters and quite generous in others (some charity towards Ukraine and Doctors Without Borders, for example).

I have enjoyed my workplace immensely. At the beginning of '23, I hit the 40-year mark and decided to quit my job. There are still three and a half years until my old-age pension, but I have no financial worries. My wife is an entrepreneur (self-employed) and still works a couple of days a week. She can easily arrange her work, so we’ve been able to travel comfortably. Soon a year of early retirement (vapaaherruus) will be behind me, and it has been a wonderful time.

I made an exit a bit early because the opportunity was there. Years ago, I used to think that when I’m retired, I’ll do this and that. You never know how many years you have left, so let’s do those favorite things right now .

[JLSA1]

First post on the whole forum.

40-year-old child of the recession and two siblings.

Parents had vocational training, and during the recession things were tight, but all needs were met. We were motivated towards education in their own way; high school was paid for, etc. Dad talked about studying to be a doctor or a lawyer. But. When you’re young and uncertain, there wasn’t really any proper guidance. I dropped out of high school; it was okay and there wasn’t even a discussion about why, for example… In hindsight, I would have needed a kick in the pants. The ideology at home was basically to do what makes you happy.

Money wasn’t really talked about (let alone stocks etc.), we got a weekly allowance, though not huge amounts. Now, through this discussion, I realized that at our home, wealth wasn’t seen as a measure of happiness in any way. One grandfather was a wealthy director, who was a rather cold person. Maybe I learned that money doesn’t (necessarily) make you happy, while the other grandfather on an early small disability pension was the most wonderful person in the world. We didn’t badmouth the rich or feel envious. Money or financial matters still aren’t really discussed within the family; it’s as if they have no significance. It’s not because there’s anything negative attached to it or anything.

I lived in an area where socioeconomic backgrounds ranged from one extreme to the other. My friends included the children of entrepreneurs inheriting millions and children placed in foster care by alcoholic parents. Back then, sometime in my pre-teens, I realized how many children of entrepreneurs were really lacking their parents’ presence. There were massive detached houses, but no one at home or no food, just money left on the table. This is the background for why making money didn’t motivate me when I was young. I still value entrepreneurs very much; of course, they’re not all the same. Back “then,” investing was such a rare thing that entrepreneurship was the only way to imagine financial success.

Now later, I completed a bachelor’s degree and am currently studying for a master’s.

I’ve already talked a lot to my first-grader child about how the economy and entrepreneurship work—at the child’s level, of course. I’ve been interested in investing for about five years; I’ve always been thrifty (but not stingy) and still am. My salary is completely sufficient for my own needs, with money left over. I think it’s just great and wonderful if people save or invest. I invest myself because investing and the economy are interesting, and in principle, I get money without really doing anything extra. It’s a bit contradictory in its own way because money doesn’t define my happiness much at all, but money doesn’t exactly hurt either. My child has funds and cash, and they don’t know about them. Letting money sit with almost zero interest in a basic account is stupid and illogical, so that’s why investing + money at a good deposit rate.

Of my siblings, my brother also invests and saves—he’s extremely frugal. My sister, on the other hand, puts very small amounts (€5–10) into savings accounts for her two children. I don’t think my sister is even aware that different banks offer different interest rates for savings. It’s great that she’s saving something, though.

[Reload]

From a blue-collar family here as well. My father spent his career in a factory with only a primary school education; my mother was sometimes a secretary, sometimes unemployed. Our quality of life was practically no different from the neighboring families. Saving was encouraged, but otherwise, financial education mostly came in the form of idioms:

“You don’t get rich in Finland by working” is a sentence I have surely heard thousands of times. My father worked hard at heavy jobs his whole life, and he certainly didn’t mean the sentence the way I interpreted it: I learned at a young age that it’s not worth working in Finland. Combined with my mother’s occasionally long periods of unemployment, I never considered the working world a reliable place to earn an income. Consequently, I didn’t bother getting an education, and let’s not exaggerate: I would never have gotten into a university anyway.

My interest in working has always been at a level bordering on aversion; I’ve only done fixed-term or part-time jobs and have practically survived only thanks to my frugality.

Due to my stinginess, I realized at age 25 that I was starting to have “ridiculously much” money in my savings account just to keep it there. I don’t remember if I even had any idea about the existence of the stock market at the time, as my first move was to put a small pot into consumer credits. After a year, I realized the money didn’t just vanish into thin air, and I dared to start looking for new targets. Somewhere along the way, I had also discovered Martin Paasi’s teachings from Rahapodi on “cost-effective index funds,” so I ended up at Nordnet.

In the end, investing has given me a hundred times more than I could have ever imagined. My first realization was that this is the way to get out of the working life I hated. A few years later, I understood that maybe the working world isn’t the problem, but rather that I am not suited to work under other people. I also always considered myself a poor learner; I’ve since had to prove this assumption at least partially wrong.

In practice, I have opened doors I didn’t even know existed. On the other hand, I have also closed some.

On the job site, you are a complete oddball who “steals their livelihood from others’ pockets” and is just full of themselves. Someone for whom “belonging to the group” is important would probably have already stopped investing altogether.

I just updated my investment plan at the turn of the year and calculated how many days until retirement: 1810.
Maybe I’ll start studying once I’m retired; I’d still have time before turning forty.

[Saint]

I am under 30 and come from an entrepreneurial family of five. My extended family is full of entrepreneurs, yet they still hold strong working-class values. My grandmother’s remark sums up the situation well: “capitalist pigs take taxis,” which she uses to justify why she cannot use a taxi for grocery trips, even though her own strength and ability to drive are reaching a point where something else needs to be done.

My father was only in the workforce for a few years after I was born before retiring on a disability pension due to severe epilepsy. The pension was somewhere around €1,500, I think—I don’t know the exact amount because I’ve never asked, but it’s nothing to celebrate with. My father is a master of working with his hands and can fix anything. Or at least it feels that way, because I haven’t managed to break anything yet that we couldn’t fix together. I am as grateful as can be for this skill. You save a huge amount of money when you know how to fix broken things yourself.

Practically the entire family was supported by my mother, the entrepreneur. I have yet to meet another person who has worked as hard as she has. For the first 15 years of my life, I only saw her in passing. My father was always home and made sure the boys got to their hobbies and so on. At one time, I wanted to play ice hockey, but we couldn’t afford it, so a significantly cheaper option was chosen instead. Alongside supporting the family, my mother studied for her high school equivalency and eventually graduated from a university of applied sciences.

During the financial crisis, the business’s operations were suspended for about a year, and money was extremely tight due to a change in location. There is a sad story behind this, as the old premises were unexpectedly demolished by the city. The new location required massive investments and debt, right in the middle of the worst possible economic climate. Somehow, by some miracle, the new location was opened. I remember doing some painting and floor installations myself when I was a little over 10 years old. My father’s health was under strain because physical exertion also worsens his epilepsy. It wasn’t really possible to use paid labor for the renovation due to the financial situation, or it was kept to an absolute minimum. I still remember the stress the family was under at that time. That’s why both I and my older brother, who is a few years older than me, had to work. Having a family with an entrepreneurial background helped immensely, as people truly wanted to help and there was professional expertise available across many fields.

The business was active, however, even though there was no revenue or profit while expenses continued to run. The family had to be fed. In Finland, an entrepreneur is not entitled to social benefits. Our livelihood was now dependent on my father’s disability pension, while at the same time, the business was sucking up all our savings—and even those weren’t enough. In the middle of everything, my mother was forced to seek external employment at the same time as her own business had to be ramped back up. The option of my father returning to work, despite the threat to his health, also crossed our minds.

I am not bitter about any of this, even though I had to work from a young age while my friends were playing video games. I learned things that will benefit me for the rest of my life.

The company is doing reasonably well now, and my mother finally managed to retire quite early—though considering her total hours worked, she should have retired ages ago. In a way, it’s been great growing up in a family like this, as I’ve seen both the rock bottoms and the peaks. I’ve sometimes toyed with the idea of what would have happened if the business had failed for one reason or another. Our family’s situation would have been very different. That’s why the COVID-19 restrictions were hard to take on a principled level; I knew they would cause tragic human and family fates.

My parents mainly invested in some mutual funds and knew almost nothing about individual stocks. My own interest was piqued around age 14, when occasional earnings started accumulating from many directions. I’ve always had an entrepreneurial mentality myself. My brother and I would go mushroom and berry picking and sell the haul to local restaurants. During the best harvest years, we even managed to go before school in the morning. Some friends laughed at us, but let them laugh. Earnings were several thousand euros during the seasons, which is a huge amount of money for a 12-year-old. And all of it went into stocks later, of course!

Regarding my own financial management, I am very frugal to a certain point. I don’t save in places where one shouldn’t save. This allowed me to channel my earnings into investments from a very young age. I invested my student loan into stocks. I didn’t need it or the grants for living; my savings would have carried me through my entire studies even if I hadn’t worked. Now I understand that starting to invest was the best decision ever. I have to say, that passive income stream just feels good. I don’t claim to be a master of investing, but at least I haven’t managed to lose money. Even my mother trusts me with her financial affairs, as I largely handle her investments. And considering our family history, I think about her investments three times more carefully than when I invest my own money.

I am currently considering an academic career. There aren’t many highly educated people in my family, with a few exceptions; everyone has been “working men or women.” Entrepreneurship still fascinates me, though, and perhaps one day I’ll be able to combine these two paths. I admittedly stand out with my background in academic circles. As it happens, I’m the type of person who gets straight to the point and gets things done. I hate all forms of learned helplessness (uusavuttomuus).

[Shinjuku-mies]

I’m nearly 40 years old and have three siblings; I’m the oldest of them. I feel I received a stricter upbringing during the 80s boom and the 90s recession than my siblings, but in hindsight, I’m satisfied with those boundaries and sanctions—after all, I was often the one to blame for my own foolishness, and I remember those times fondly today.

I’m a double vocational graduate (tupla-amis), with two different basic degrees that complement each other when needed, and I don’t intend to pursue further formal education sitting in a classroom; I’ll certainly get by with these. My parents are blue-collar workers, my father in the warehouse sector and my mother in healthcare. During the 90s recession, money was tight. Packages of ground meat were halved, I got clothes for free secondhand, etc. Despite that, my piles of Christmas presents were huge—for example, an NES and an Amiga 500 appeared from Santa’s sack, even though I didn’t even need them; my friends had the same games and gear, and I was an “outdoor kid” anyway. I’ve mentioned it afterwards that it wasn’t necessary, and that money certainly could have been put to better use.

I was a big spender as a child and money always burned a hole in my pocket. Regarding financial matters, I received recommendations to save from both my parents and grandparents, but it mostly stopped there. I often secretly withdrew money saved in my Postipankki account, as it was possible with a passbook without providing identification at the time. What came in, went out. I got my first phone, a Nokia 5110, as a confirmation gift, which I remember cost 1,999 mk. My weekly allowance was 50 marks, and I delivered suburban newspapers every Friday for 3.5 years, and if there’s one thing I’m proud of, it’s that I’ve paid all my phone bills with money earned from my own work ever since my confirmation days; there was never anything left over. The same phone number starting with 050 is still in use after more than 25 years.

Since there wasn’t much of my own money for splurging as a child and youth, it taught me a little, but not enough. For too long, I assumed that the only purpose of money was to spend it. If I got 10, 20, 50, or 100 mk, it was gone in an instant. This continued even during my time in the army, meaning my daily allowances went toward those phone bills and weekend carousing. After the army 20 years ago, the moment came in life when I had to become independent, and my mother sort of pushed me to move out on my own, and it was for the best…

---

I’ll jump now from 20 years ago to today; I have now been investing for 6.5 years and, having started from zero, I have saved nearly a six-figure sum from my own income during that time. I don’t think my income is high—a bit over two grand net in hand every month—but my savings rate last year was a very nice 56% of my total annual net income.

I am now the only one in my family building wealth at a good pace, with mandatory expenses (housing, bills, and food) at less than a thousand a month, which is even less than 10 years ago. I have thus taught myself to be the best financial expert, realizing that the only purpose of money is not to spend it and that expenses and lifestyle must be scaled and proportioned to income, while also considering horror scenarios, as this decade’s nasty start proves. I also like to say that saving is a mandatory expense that must be taken care of.

I have tried to spread the “gospel” of saving and investing, as well as tracking one’s own finances, especially to my siblings who still have plenty of time to grow their wealth, but for now, expenses eat up their income and/or the interest simply isn’t there. At least I can prove to them if needed that this isn’t rocket science; you just have to start, even with just tens of euros, just like I did back then.

[Dividendtears]

I come from a single-parent family of five. Mom mostly did temporary cleaning jobs, and money was tight. We were a poor family; nothing was taken for granted, everything had to be earned… We knew nothing about investing, and neither did our relatives.

Mom even acted as a guarantor for others’ loans and ended up having to pay them back, and sometimes there wasn’t even enough food on the table… We received clothing packages from the Finnish Red Cross (SPR) at Christmas and, for example, gift cards to the store from the Church… I myself gladly give money to the Good Christmas Spirit (Hyvä Joulumieli) collection every year because I know how important that work is…

Some of my siblings are bitter about our poor childhood, but personally, I wouldn’t change a thing… You are who you are because of the things you’ve experienced, and unfortunately, it’s only through “pain” that a person grows the most..

As a child, I saw my mother crying in the evenings next to a pile of bills, wondering how we would get through it all. That’s when I decided I didn’t want to experience the same thing.. After high school, I went into blue-collar work because I’ve always liked working with my hands.. I worked a lot of overtime and put as much as I could into savings in stocks..

I went all-in without any knowledge into the stock bubble at the turn of the millennium and took losses of thousands of euros…

I read every investment book I could find in the library and started investing again from scratch in 2004 with a focus on dividends..
I was aiming for financial independence, but nowadays it’s more about financial freedom: for example, being able to take a job you like even if it’s low-paying, etc.

And for example, building a detached house for the family was a major financial undertaking.. You can’t save on everything; family is the true wealth in life. If you save too much, you can lose other important things and life goes unlived.. You have to find a balance…

Now at 46 years old, my dividend income is about €30k a year, and I’m looking for part-time work and trying to enjoy my achievements/freedom…

[hlaht1nen]

I am in my thirties and grew up in a working-class family in the countryside. I had a happy childhood, although in hindsight I’ve realized that my childhood wasn’t quite normal. My mother had serious mental health issues, and my father had some level of alcohol problem. However, my father has always been a hard worker; he is the most industrious and productive person I know. If there is one thing I am grateful to my father for, it is the work ethic I inherited from him.

I didn’t receive much financial education. Instead, I was encouraged to study, and I was rewarded for good grades when I was young. Investing was never discussed, or at least only to the extent that, in my father’s opinion, investing is not worth it. He has a bad experience of his own in his past. I was also led to believe that debt is always a bad thing. My parents never really had much debt.

Even though my parents were low-income, we traveled abroad a lot. This was very rare at our elementary school. Otherwise, I never lacked for anything. From my parents, I learned that you can get by very well on a low income if your expenses are low.

I remember receiving €1,800 from my mother when I left for university. It was a lot of money for my mother, whose income was very low. It must have taken a long time to save it. Since I had never been taught money management, I immediately blew that sum on all sorts of trivial things. It still bothers me. My mother also had a habit of suddenly giving me money without me asking. She didn’t realize that by giving me money for nothing, she was doing me a disservice. Quite a few years went by where I didn’t pay any attention to my spending because I received money so easily from my mother.

At some point, I started to mature a bit, and for some reason, I became interested in investing. I started following different media outlets that were trumpeting the “gospel” of investing. I have now been investing for 3 years, and the investments are still small. At one point, I got into a good rhythm with investing, but my current studies and part-time job are slowing the journey down a bit. The investing will pick up in a bigger way once I graduate and return to the workforce with a better salary.

I am proud and grateful for everything I have achieved, even though my starting point was modest and the foundation provided by my parents was quite weak. Many things have become clear to me because I am curious and have a huge desire to learn, develop, and progress. I also get excited about things easily, which certainly helps with getting ahead. I also feel lucky that I am relatively young and get to enjoy the benefits of the information society. Learning and educating oneself has never been as easy as it is now. My parents did not have the same opportunity at my age.

[JukkaTumala]

Greetings to everyone here.
This is my first post here, and I’ll keep it short.

Indeed. I’m a child of the late 70s. Both parents were in blue-collar jobs, and money wasn’t exactly pouring in. But the family always had everything for a so-called “secure” life. A detached house, a summer cottage, food, drink, etc. . No expensive pastimes, though, and no unnecessary purchases.
So, a good basic upbringing at home, showing that even as a blue-collar worker, you can get by without scraping by.

Jumping far forward in time… I’ve worked in blue-collar fields myself. First, on construction sites for nearly 20 years, and nowadays in the electrical sector. Both professions are well-paid relative to the level of education.

Life has turned my financial situations upside down. As a relatively young man starting out, I managed to set some money aside. Not huge sums, but a nice buffer relative to living costs.

Leaping forward a few years again…
A child, a mortgage, and a divorce. Indeed, the apartment was sold with my ex in a forced sale, leaving us with €20,000 in debt per person. It was “fun” paying for thin air for a few years.

Now I’ve reached a situation where there’s something left over. My work is based on piece-rate pay, and my age/fitness still allows me to “go at it like crazy.” My income for the last couple of years has been €70–80k.

And, to the point itself. Stock investing has now become a new part of my life. The idea is to make the money work for me instead of just sitting in an account. Or to prevent me from wasting all the extra on useless stuff.

This is going to be quite a learning process.
Last year, I opened an Equity Savings Account (OST) and put the first €10k in there to grow. The roughly +7% from the end of the year has turned into a current ~-7%.
Ridiculous, but at the same time extremely interesting. To many here, €10k is probably just pocket change, but for me, it’s a pretty damn big sum.

So there it is. Looking forward to future bounces and crashes with interest.

[Peku_L]

For the first time, I felt inspired to write here. I was born in the early 1960s. Even so, investing was familiar to me as early as elementary school age. Both of my parents come from wealthy and educated families. On one parent’s side, shares have been acquired for generations. The stock exchange was founded in 1912, but investments in stocks were made even before then. A few companies, in which the previous generation was a founding shareholder, later grew into listed companies. Though they are no longer independent ones.

My father worked in industry and my mother was at home; the standard of living in the family was very good. My father also had some work experience from the investment side of a bank, and he bought shares in several listed companies himself. He never sold a single share. My mother had inherited shares in probably about a dozen companies. Nowadays, people talk about saving for children. In my case, that happened even as a small child. Shares were transferred to children and also subscribed to in share issues. I was clipping coupons as a schoolboy, and the annual reports that arrived in the mail did not go into the trash. I still value dividends—you no longer need scissors to collect them. By the time I reached adulthood, I owned shares in seven companies. It wasn’t necessarily conscious diversification, as those had been acquired for various reasons. Industry, both banks, and also one trading firm. Now there is broader diversification, though not dozens of lines. Dividends were not an insignificant source of income during my student years.

As a child, I read KOP’s (Kansallis-Osake-Pankki) listed companies book and Gunhard Kock’s publications a bit later. Saario probably sometime in the 80s. Helsingin Sanomat and Kauppalehti had financial news, and occasionally I also read Talouselämä. The dividend column was of particular interest. In the family and also with other relatives, one could discuss matters related to business life.

At least in my case, my background has an enormous significance in my attitude toward investing. Money can be earned by “doing nothing.” The enthusiasm didn’t catch on with my siblings. I even made a career in the investment markets, starting somewhere after the mid-80s. In various roles, and at some point, I also managed other people’s assets. I didn’t start my own investing from scratch, but I believe I have managed my responsibilities well. I left the workforce several years ago. Investing is still one of the ways I spend my time today. I also manage a family member’s portfolio. Naturally, I have been asked for advice over the decades. Since the late 90s, I have been able to recommend index funds in good conscience if one lacks the time and interest for investing. I haven’t received complaints about the tip; instead, long-term index investors have been satisfied with the decision to get involved. Personally, I am still a stock picker.

Finland has been poor, and there is still no reason for chest-thumping. While traveling the world, I have heard talk of multi-generational wealth building. Hanseatic families can still be wealthy. Even our currently disparaged western neighbor (Sweden) is well ahead of us in that regard. Finland is on a good path, and it’s great that investing is no longer a swear word for many. I wouldn’t criticize my ancestors for investing in stocks; they certainly had land property before that too. Nevertheless, their actual livelihood often came from a public office. A long period of time has created wealth for many. Even my less industrious relatives have hardly been familiar customers at the Kela (Social Insurance Institution) counter. Hard work has indeed been valued in our family.

As awareness of investing has risen sharply even in these latitudes, it also has an impact on a national level. The level of discussion is also pleasing. Although I have been in the scene for a long time, it is a joy to read the writings of investors younger (and more competent) than myself. I still learn a lot from them.

The examples set at home matter. Fortunately, I am no longer such a “strange bird” as a retail investor. My friends were more interested in mopeds than Rauma-Repola. Even friends from wealthy families were not interested in stocks back then. Despite the strange hobby, I wasn’t a nerd, however. Now it’s quite commonplace to save for small children. Slowly but surely, the Finns are progressing. Investing has enabled things in my life that might not have happened otherwise. In the future, this will apply to more and more people and hopefully their children as well. It is also not away from me if someone does better than I do. There are certainly wealthier, more handsome, smarter, and younger people on this forum than me. This is what we’re working with.

[Bondi]

@Wappie

In this thread, forum members can share their socioeconomic background and its impact on their own investing. The topic can also be discussed generally without revealing one’s personal background. Did your parents or grandparents invest? Have you received an inheritance? How has your parents’ socioeconomic background affected your education, professional life, networking, and consequently, your investing?

Here is another “class-boundary-breaking” exception that proves the rule. I also come from a small town and grew up in a poor family where both my parents were uneducated and low-paid blue-collar workers. My parents didn’t invest or save much; they just paid off their mortgage in the typical Finnish fashion. In our family, investing was perceived more as gambling than a way to build wealth, and they didn’t really have any noteworthy opportunities for wealth accumulation anyway. However, education was highly valued in our family and we children were encouraged to study, even though my own uneducated parents were unable to support us on this academic path themselves.

Thanks to Finland’s high-quality school system, I scrambled through comprehensive school on my own, went to upper secondary school, and eventually graduated. After military service, and following the lead of my friend group at the time, I headed to a technical university without a precise plan, from which I eventually graduated as the only Master of Science in Engineering (Diplomi-insinööri) in our family, and our entire extended family, against all expectations. Honestly, I don’t think I would have been capable of such a class leap if the Finnish education system hadn’t made this kind of “free” education possible.

I started investing inspired by coffee table conversations at my first permanent job, initially practicing with modest sums but persistently continuing with a long-term approach to this day. I accumulated my capital solely by saving from earned income and living a modest life. I haven’t received an inheritance, I don’t need one, and I don’t even expect to receive a significant one. To this day, my portfolio has grown to such a size that I can humbly state that this child of a blue-collar family doesn’t really need to worry about money anymore.

[Paperikasi1]

People have some interesting stories. Maybe I’ll share a bit of my own background as well.

I come from a relatively small town in the middle of the countryside. In my family, money, and especially saving or investing, was rarely discussed—perhaps because we were doing well enough. Both parents had steady, decent-paying jobs. There was no inherited wealth or property on either side; one parent grew up in a very poor single-parent household, and the other’s family had their assets tied up in a small plot of farmland. Although my parents probably didn’t have much extra while raising five children, they put a little aside, and we children had high-interest savings accounts back then and, if I remember correctly, some bonds. There were never any stocks in the family.

Even though my parents remained employed throughout the recession of the 90s, the large detached house they bought in the late 80s became expensive as interest rates rose. On top of that, they were hit by guarantor liabilities for another family’s mortgage. From those times, I remember a specific detail: suddenly I only had one bank passbook; the high-interest one had disappeared from the bureau drawer. I didn’t think to wonder about it then, but now I think I know what happened to that money at the time.

I moved away from home to study at a business school in the mid-90s, mainly because I had no idea what I wanted to be when I grew up, and I happened to get straight in based on my high school grades. In business school, I ended up majoring in finance, also partly by luck. I didn’t have a very clear understanding of the subject matter; I applied because it was the most popular major—herd mentality in action! The studies did provide meaningful content, though, and gradually started to feel interesting. I did notice that a large portion of the people around me seemed to come from wealthier backgrounds—they talked about backpacking trips, while I had never even been on a plane. Someone got their own car as a graduation gift; I got a used bicycle from my parents. Many lived in private rentals downtown or even in apartments bought for them in the university city, while I tried to scrape by in a shared student flat, living on small savings from summer jobs, the student grant, and housing allowance. Much of the time, I felt like I was starting from behind in terms of material wealth and that I was missing out.

Once I started working, filling this void became my highest priority. The thought of moving into professional work while still living on a student budget felt unbearable. Because of this, money burned a hole in my pocket for a long time, and I acquired all sorts of things I felt I had missed out on. I tried some investments with small stakes—JOT Automation and some funds, at least—but the dot-com bubble burst right then, and those saved funds lost a large part of their value. Gritting my teeth, I sold everything and swallowed the losses.

My spouse at the time, on the other hand, came from a family where real estate was the only asset worth valuing. In the early 2000s, we took out a massive loan relative to our income to buy a three-room apartment in central Helsinki as our first home. Even after this, there was no money left for investments; a large part of our income went toward mortgage repayments and, with the arrival of children, their expenses—we bought a car and all the other gear. Gradually rising incomes primarily enabled a higher standard of living, and practically nothing was left for savings.

A bit over 10 years ago, after a divorce, I sold my share of the apartment to my ex. I paid off my portion of the loan to the bank, and at 35, I was in a situation for the first time in my life where I had a six-figure sum of money in my account. Or to be completely honest—a sum over five figures in euros. Once I reached this position, my risk appetite was very low, and I decided to hold onto this money with all my might. I kept most of it in cash and put a few tens of thousands into Seligson Pharos—the heavy diversification across different asset classes and geographies felt like an easy solution. I found a new relationship, and we bought a house together. For years, the dynamics of a blended family, the mortgage, and career matters were the most important things on my mind, and there wasn’t really any mental bandwidth or risk tolerance left for investing.

Gradually, however, I began to feel confident that things were actually quite fine and on track, and I started having a surplus from my salary every month. I first started saving monthly into equity funds and gradually began looking into direct stock investments as my risk tolerance changed. I aim to keep 60-70% of the portfolio in funds; this is the cornerstone of my investments that produces what it produces. Of the remaining portion, 50-70% is invested in so-called “safe” stocks intended for long-term holding (among the largest holdings in the portfolio are Apple, Investor AB, Fortum, and Mandatum). With the rest, I invest on a shorter-term basis and in higher-risk targets. The portfolio has grown gradually—it was a fantastic feeling when the value of my investments crossed the hundred-thousand mark for the first time!

For my children, my goal is to provide more knowledge and understanding than I received myself. Now, with the teenagers, we’ve discussed saving in general and how it’s worth learning to set aside a slice of all income first for their “future selves.” If they act like I did when I was younger, no amount of income will be enough as expenses grow at the same rate. They don’t have massive portfolios, but they will certainly have healthy five-figure sums when they reach adulthood.

[Kiinteistosijoittaja]

An absolutely fantastic thread. Truly wonderful and openly shared stories.

[Der_Korbo]

I am a child of the 80s, and looking back, my family background, the recession, and my grandparents’ experiences as Karelian evacuees (Karjalan evakko) have influenced my own education, networking, and investing.

I spent my childhood in the capital region in one of (currently) Finland’s Top 5 highest-income areas. My grandparents moved to the area from North Karelia in the 50s and built a house in an area that was still a popular summer cottage area for Swedish speakers at the time. One of my grandparents worked on construction sites and the other worked as a cleaner and delivered the Helsingin Sanomat (Hesari) in the mornings. Plot prices and the profile of the residential area were quite different back then compared to today. It was a pure stroke of luck that the area developed (presumably due to its location) by the 90s into a detached house area for the more affluent part of the population. My parents moved to the area in the early 90s because my grandparents lived nearby and they received a plot cheaply as an early inheritance.

Many families in the area lived quite ordinary lives back then, and the houses were so-called normal prefab houses (pakettitalo), but when I think about it now, many of my childhood friends’ parents were entrepreneurs, engineers, or had a bit more education. This naturally has a healthy effect on the mental landscape formed as a child; you start to think that maybe you too can become whatever you want. My blue-collar father used to say that he was “the only blue-collar worker on this street.”

Of my own parents, my mother went to university and worked for the state, while my father worked as a small entrepreneur in the construction industry in the 90s. My father retrained as a carpenter during the recession after losing his previous job. The recession and my parents’ educational backgrounds influenced the home in such a way that, in addition to warning about debt, the importance of education was emphasized—“you must at least graduate from high school (lukio).” I personally had my sights set on university since elementary school . During the recession, there naturally wasn’t too much money, as my father was studying and my mother supported a family of four alone, but generally, my childhood was quite happy and from a child’s perspective, nothing was missing.

I think a certain frugality was ingrained into my mindset from those times, even though it wasn’t specifically taught at home. Almost the opposite, actually; I remember a few times from my youth when I had to lend money to my father (several hundreds in euros, I don’t know where that money went and why my father’s money problems were so recurring). Additionally, a few months’ worth of wages from when I worked at my father’s construction site were left unpaid, but at that time his financial problems were so significant (I assume, but of course, these things weren’t and aren’t talked about ) that they ended in a suicide attempt, and I let the matter go. Shortly after that, he gave up the business. My father’s advice was “never become an entrepreneur.”

So, my youth was quite contradictory in terms of money usage, but perhaps these experiences left a lesson about the financial security made possible by saving.

In the early 2000s, when moving out on my own, I had secured a place at a university of technology (teknillinen korkeakoulu) and I think I had about 1,000 euros in savings. However, I went to work before my studies started and it turned out that I really enjoyed that job. The salary was comfortably enough for all the normal things and the work was fun. I managed to save well; after a year, I think I had about 10,000e saved. I postponed the start of my studies for a couple of years and then a bit more when I founded a company with some colleagues. So much for my father’s advice Years passed, and suddenly I noticed that I was approaching 30, my studies were still at the very beginning, and I was employing 10 people myself. I had also accumulated savings from the business, and my assets in my bank account had grown to over a hundred thousand euros. A basic “rainy day fund” (pahan päivän vara) was already saved plus a bit extra, so I thought it would be good to find a better destination for the rest of the money than a bank account. At this stage (or actually after considering the matter for a few years first ), I started saving in index funds and I am still on that path today.

Over the last few years, the COVID-19 pandemic pulled the rug out from under my sense of basic security. Even though I had operated as an entrepreneur for a decade with only a high school background and the company was doing quite well, I realized that any unforeseen event could throw things into a completely new position, and I might end up in a situation where I am without an education, the salaries of 15 people need to be paid, and projects need to be finished. My confidence in the future wavered.

Everything turned out fine in the end, but during COVID, I noticed that my childhood experiences, and especially my father’s problems, past, and lack of education, played a big role in my sense of security and trust in the system. It felt like no matter how well things went, I might be left with nothing (tyhjän päälle). After this, saving and accumulating wealth for a “rainy day” became somewhat obsessive, and it felt like no amount of money was enough to bring a sense of security. If I couldn’t sleep at night, instead of counting sheep, I calculated theoretically how much different funds and dividends would yield in one, two, ten years…

The business continued to be profitable, however. It was also good to notice that we bounce back from crises and the resulting stock market dips, which created faith that I can also survive difficult times and that assets in the stock market will recover over time if I just continue the regular savings plan and don’t start panicking or trying to be clever. A year ago I sold my company, at which point for the first time I had a seven-figure sum of money in my account, and for the past year, I have been trying to diversify this sensibly without taking a major stance on the market.

Perhaps now I feel like I have reached a so-called safer phase, and even if life throws challenges my way, I would likely manage quite well financially even if I lost my job. There are still 30 years of my career ahead, and I don’t see it as sensible to dream of FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) yet. My future plans are to continue focusing on very interesting work, and I look forward to seeing how I can make the wealth accumulated so far grow.

[Lobeh]

A really interesting thread and interesting stories. Here is mine:

I’m a 38-year-old native Helsinkian with a family, a child of the recession era. I grew up relatively close to the city center, though in small apartments considering the size of the family. My parents were both university-educated researchers. We got by on those salaries, but you couldn’t call it a lavish life. We couldn’t afford a car, vacations abroad, or many hobbies, and everything that came in went right back out. However, money management was sensible enough that there were no debt problems or anything similar. My parents also taught me the importance of saving; if you put enough of your weekly allowance aside, you can then buy bigger things, etc. However, they didn’t have any experience or lessons to share regarding the stock market, funds, or other types of investing. In daycare and school, there were children from very wealthy families, but I don’t remember really noticing it. Some had more toys than others, some had bigger and some had smaller apartments. We still played the same games in them, though. In hindsight, it’s clear that we were at the lower end of the wealth distribution in that group, but I didn’t notice it at all as a child.

Since both parents were highly educated, it probably never even crossed my mind that I wouldn’t go to upper secondary school (lukio). On the other hand, math and natural sciences interested me a lot, which helped me succeed in them, so I ended up in university myself. Regarding work ethic, both parents worked standard 9–5 jobs with flexible hours, so at least I didn’t learn that you should work yourself to exhaustion. Neither I nor my siblings were steered in any particular direction in life, whether in hobbies, studies, or career. I am the only one of my siblings who went to university. There were no entrepreneurs in my immediate family either, yet somehow I ended up becoming one myself.

I have to agree with the OP’s comment about the eye-opening effect of the military. Until the end of upper secondary school, I lived in a bubble, as hardly anyone was from a low-income family, or even many from a middle-income one. In the military, I saw a cross-section of the kind of people this country has all at once. I don’t really see huge differences in people from different backgrounds; you find both idiots and geniuses among both the wealthy and the poor. Instead, as has been noted in this thread and seen in studies, children easily follow in their parents’ footsteps because that’s the path they’ve seen and learned throughout their lives.

I first actually learned about investing in university when a certain course looked at listed companies and taught us about key ratios, etc. That’s also when I made my first stock market investments. I remember how uncertain and anxious I felt putting my own savings somewhere where their value could drop, but somehow I reasoned my way through the anxiety and made the investments. I got excited and started researching listed companies more, making additional investments from my savings. The amounts I invested were small, but the price movements still brought a considerable amount of excitement, which on the other hand also curbed my investing. In addition to these, I had previously put savings into some bank’s own complex and expensive capital-protected fund setup. I wish someone had told me what a scam those are and briefly mentioned index investing. Well, the most important thing is the basic wisdom that it doesn’t matter much where you invest as long as you invest in something. Fortunately, I had enough interest in the subject that I continued learning about investing on my own. Now, the majority of my investment assets are in indices, though I have quite a few direct stock investments too.

Finally, I should say that I think it’s extremely foolish that investing isn’t taught more at lower levels of education. If we learn about saving gradually from a young age, why couldn’t the same be done with investing? The benefits of this are not hard to argue, regardless of people’s differing current socioeconomic situations.

[Jamppis]

Interesting thread opening! It leads precisely to reflecting on the impact of one’s upbringing and socioeconomic background on the kind of person and money manager they become!

I am also the youngest child, born in the mid-80s, to a family raised by a single mother. My mother was uneducated and grew up in poverty. I have two siblings who are 5 and 6 years older than me. I remember that as a little boy, life was still quite happy even though there was no money, but then came the recession and unemployment. This led to the parent’s alcohol use, and that’s where the downward spiral began. Days were spent hanging out at the bar with a new partner, and at night they came home to argue. Luckily, I still got food from school back then, and at home, we ate whatever could be found in the cupboards. Situations escalated so much that my older siblings moved out while still in their teens, and I was, so to speak, left alone. Until apparently the neighbors called social services, and they came to take me away to a children’s home as well. At the time, this felt terrible, of course, but it was good to get away from that kind of environment. Around that time, I also remember promising myself that I would never become an alcoholic, but rather that I wanted a better life for myself.

However, the uncomfortable situation at home led to middle school not going exactly as planned (even though I had top grades in primary school), and I had to go to the 10th grade (voluntary extra year of basic education). I knew, however, that I wasn’t stupid; other things affected my success. So, after middle school, I sought out the 10th grade to improve my grades and then went to high school (lukio), even though I had no clue what I wanted to do as an adult (I probably still don’t). When I graduated, I was the first high school graduate in the family.

Naturally, investing was never mentioned during my childhood, and I don’t think my mother even considered it; life was focused on surviving one day at a time. Saving or other financial management was never discussed either, and the house was full of debts and payment reminders. This led to the fact that after high school, while pondering the future, all the money earned from work was spent since I finally had some. It was only when I got into a university of applied sciences (ammattikorkeakoulu) that I started maturing and thinking about what money actually is. Perhaps due to my background, I’ve also become somewhat of an overachiever regarding education; after the university of applied sciences, I went to get a Master’s degree in London, and later I picked up another Master’s from the University of Helsinki (no PhD, at least not yet). Investing only came into the picture at a later age, maybe just under 10 years ago (through funds), but a deeper understanding has only come with age and studies. I’ve been lucky to have people around me who have been interested in the financial markets, and this enthusiasm has rubbed off on me too. Through investing, my own financial management has also improved, and nowadays I am quite a frugal person.

Due to my own poor background, I’ve also always wanted to see the world, as it wasn’t possible during childhood. I am lucky that I’ve been able to backpack a lot around the globe with money saved from work and have seen a great deal. I’m also lucky that my adult life has been quite happy, because unfortunately I can’t say the same for my siblings, who continued on the path paved by their environment and with alcohol. To ensure the story isn’t all gloom, my mother got sober after I was placed in the children’s home and finally realized she couldn’t live that way. Our relationship improved later when things were discussed, and we were actually very close until she passed away a couple of years ago.

For me, the lesson of the story is that regardless of background, it is possible to achieve so-called upward social mobility and change the direction of one’s life. Some are dealt better cards than others, but I feel that in Finland, improving my life has been possible for me if there is only the will. Furthermore, if I ever have offspring, I will teach them financial management, investing, and sensible spending. What a messy stream of consciousness during a lunch break, but hopefully someone got something out of the story!