Hi,
I’d like to start a discussion about the use of the Finnish language in investing-related blogs, such as Inderes, Rahapodi, Sijoitustieto, etc. Miikka, Sauli, Martin, and others, wake up!
Verneri has promised me to reduce jargon, and I want him to challenge Inderes, Nordnet, and other players to a competition for the Finnish language; a hundred to charity for every piece of jargon.
Our beautiful mother tongue deserves better than:
vehiikkeeli = apparently some kind of tool
pättle = some kind of struggle in the latest Rahapodi
keissi = probably some kind of event
steppi = probably not a dance, but just a single step
vuntamentti = could it be some kind of foundation, concrete?
vokusointi = is it something that requires attention?
You can continue the list indefinitely.
Regards,
Jukka Kejonen
Chairman, Kouvola Shareholders’ Association
An interesting start. This was immediately flagged, but then again, this topic would get lost in, for example, the Coffee Room. Perhaps the topic could be broadened to the general use of language and terminology in investing in Finland? How does “colloquial culture” change over time? (I wonder if there are many sociologists on this forum..)
I completely agree that it’s good to cherish the Finnish language. Cherishing doesn’t, of course, mean not letting the language develop or unequivocally saying no to foreign words (a significant portion of Finnish words are foreign in origin, as far as I understand).
This is probably something that one just has to keep pointing out every time one encounters it. I quite often point this out to colleagues, with poor success.
Addition: I edited the thread title to cover the content more broadly. The phenomenon is more pronounced in videos/podcasts than in blogs.
So-called loanwords and neologisms are constantly evolving, and there’s no stopping it. However, the Finnish language is so beautiful and versatile that it can be utilized endlessly. Often, it feels like neologisms are used to make the speaker sound, so to speak, smarter.
Is it not possible that this jargon is an attempt to elevate one’s own standing and project an image of superior knowledge?
Seriously, inappropriate insider slang hinders new investors’ understanding. Many find it a significant task just to grasp the correct terminology, and muddying the waters doesn’t help. A professional should be able to present their points clearly in their native language.
My comment is general in nature and not aimed at any specific individuals. Inderes’ excellent work should simply be easy for everyone to grasp.
Before you jump to conclusions, what if, instead of English, an analyst, for example, mumbled German, French, Chinese, or Russian words in “new Finnish” – would your opinion change?
English shouldn’t be compared to other languages, as it’s a global language that everyone should understand to some extent.
As mentioned, during each generation, our own language tends to change, and as English becomes more common, these “Finglish” words start to appear.
We also have many words that were originally derived from other languages, and this will continue to be the case.
However, I don’t have difficulty understanding these, as they often stem from English, which I understand quite fluently.
Perhaps the original poster exaggerated those wordings into an old-school format, e.g., fundamentti (foundation), bättle (battle), fokusointi (focusing), from which one can easily deduce where they come from and what they mean.
I have more difficulty understanding fancy loanwords where it’s hard to deduce their meaning.
I can’t immediately give an example, as I don’t use them myself, but I haven’t been to enough schools to expect that I would know them
In Finland, English is not a mandatory language, and there are people who haven’t studied it. English doesn’t even seem to be an official language in any EU member state anymore, after the British left.
This is quite a common problem in every industry these days – so much work is done in English because of clients and foreign colleagues. If you’re constantly using English jargon at work, half of which doesn’t even have a properly established Finnish term, it’s no wonder if English words pop up when you’re talking about the subject in Finnish.
I’ve noticed it myself when I’ve written longer posts in the circuit manufacturer thread about the strange world of IT hardware, and when proofreading, I have to replace an English term in every other sentence, and yet I still use them a lot.
(I still have trauma from when, over 15 years ago, I used to write about industry stuff for a print magazine, and the editorial secretary would always come with a stick when I tried to offer “Finglish” for an article… I’m still convinced she was a secret agent planted by the language board )
It’s great that we’re defending our small language. It’s a rich and rare language, but as Verner also noted, Finnish has a huge number of loanwords. The word “jargon” used by the original poster in the title is one example, which is just as much Finnish as, say, “fundamentti” (foundation). These creep into speech and eventually become established words. For some, a new expression is invented, and perhaps industry leaders in Finland could consciously promote these.
I’m not annoyed by the use of these Anglicisms, but if the Finnish alternative is equally informative and rolls off the tongue nicely, then I would certainly hope it would be used.
It doesn’t really matter if someone talks about “kuuykkönen” (Q1, literally “moon one”) or “ensimmäinen kvartaali” (first quarter); to an outsider, they are probably both equally slang. Not all professional jargon has been translated very successfully either; for example, the highly informative English abbreviations “EBITDA, EBIT” etc. are terms that summarize the matter excellently, whereas “käyttökate” (operating margin) and “liikevoitto” (operating profit) are, in my opinion, a bit so-so. I, for one, prefer to talk about “EV/EBIT” rather than “yritysarvo suhteessa liikevoittoon” (enterprise value relative to operating profit).
Isn’t English a mandatory subject in schools, though?
They even start English basics in preschool nowadays, whereas for me, it only started in third grade. That’s probably why we see these adaptations, as language learning increases with each generation.
I also think the argument about an official language is quite foolish, because the common language for communication in the EU is, primarily, English.
Those who haven’t studied English are becoming marginal groups.
Progress progresses, and that’s how it has always been.
Older generations always “complain” about the youth of today and their actions and changes.
Language changes and evolves. It does so even faster in subcultures, such as among investors. Of course, sometimes “unnecessary” English translations might stand out, but so what? The way people communicate is endlessly diverse. The most important thing, however, is to convey the message’s content as the narrator experienced it.
P.S. “keissi” (case) is a terrible word. The word “case,” on the other hand, is already commonly used in everyday life in certain fields. For example, the word “case” is often used for patients and their condition/illness. The word “tapaus” (case/incident) simply doesn’t convey the same meaning…
The investment world is international and interconnected. English has become its lingua franca. Literature, news, reports, and discussions are largely in English. Therefore, it’s quite natural that English terms appear in Finnish investment discussions. Sometimes, you even have to think about the Finnish equivalents. It’s also easier to say IPO, EPS, or CMD than listautumisanti (initial public offering), osakekohtainen tulos (earnings per share), or pääomamarkkinapäivä (capital markets day).
However, I value the preservation of the Finnish language. In addition, sticking to Finnish lowers the barrier for new investors to start following investment media. The Donald Duck magazine is well-known and awarded for its rich use of the Finnish language; here, Inderes has a good opportunity to take on the Donald Duck role of the Finnish investment community under the leadership of @Verneri_Pulkkinen!
The same applies to all “areas of expertise” and hobbies. They all have their own slang, from beer drinking (beer hobby) to golf. In my opinion, it’s not a linguistic oversight, but rather, as others have mentioned above, a way to demonstrate one’s own expertise. Buying on the dip, selling on the bid/ask spread, fundamentals, leverage, rallies, and institutions convey “familiarity” and “expertise” and make the writer “credible,” even if he’s a 16-year-old boy who accidentally stumbled upon the forum with Google on his phone, with one euro in his pocket and another in his gaming machine.
I prefer writing in Finnish, especially when there’s a Finnish equivalent for “Finglish” terms. “Akvisitio” = yritysosto (acquisition). On the other hand, it’s good to use established concepts. When talking about “yritysarvo” (company value), this can get confused with the company’s debt-free value (EV = enterprise value) and the market value of the share capital. Then there’s “omistaja-arvo” (shareholder value), which is a completely different thing. What annoys me the most is the use of abbreviations. The 2 seconds the writer saves by not writing out abbreviations means a headache for the readership, who get lost. For example, EV can also stand for Expected Value, which is also relevant in investing.
In my opinion, the best way to demonstrate knowledge is to be able to explain your point clearly to the audience.
Jargon (from Frenchjargon; gibberish, mumbo jumbo) is the professional or specialized language of a certain group or community. Jargon is found, for example, in the speech of practitioners of many hobbies or professions, such as doctors.
For example, aircraft maintenance wouldn’t be possible without this “slang”; the instructions are in the aircraft manufacturer’s language, and the mechanics speak a second or third language/dialect. However, everyone understands the basic concepts, even if they don’t meet any grammatical standards.
Always. Always the small are oppressed. English just happens to be one of Malta’s official languages. It would be quite rude if we couldn’t say anything if someone from Malta ever came to Finland. Malta - just a moment.
First and foremost, all un-Finnish influences from already dead languages should be purged. Why say tele-vision when we can simply say kauko-näkö (far-sight) in clear Finnish?
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