92. Torniojaws
At first glance, today’s interviewee might be mistaken for a bumtsibum (classic Finnish TV music game show) kind of guy, but you can’t really call him that since he’s got a bit of the dividend investor in him. (Shoutout to @Mirko_Sampo_IR)
Unawares, we investors are quite often herd minds, jumping into familiar and “safe” things, and getting caught up in FOMO. In my opinion, Torniojaws doesn’t represent a mass-FOMOer or a seeker of the extraordinary, but rather a relatively objective investor who has found a suitable and sensible way for themselves to invest for the long haul.
He often writes with a humorous twinkle in his eye, but he also knows how to express a lot quite concisely. In real life, at least, I’m the kind of person who talks a lot but says little (of any substance), whereas I feel he writes compactly, but says a lot.
I think people could get some inspiration from this interview for longer-term action as well, which would be good, since this is a marathon, not a sprint.
1. Tell us in thirty words who you are.
A software engineer aiming to secure the future through investing, who moved from Lapland to the south for work. Has done product development in four Finnish listed companies and one startup acquired by an American listed company. I enjoy reading documentation, which also helps with investing in the stock market 
2. Tell us three things that forum members don’t know about you.
- I have played guitar at 38 gigs
- I went to primary school by bicycling to Sweden
- Most likely, almost every forum member has used some of the software I’ve helped code. Not a product like vero.fi, but roughly on the same level of coverage.
3. What interests and hobbies do you have? You are not allowed to mention anything related to investing.
- Music composition, playing, and mixing
- Unsurprisingly, traveling
- And of course, software development in my free time, on my own projects
4. What is a normal weekday like for you?
Get the boys to school/kindergarten and open the laptop for remote work, then a day of intensive coding (meetings) coding (meetings), keeping half an eye on the stock market. In the evening, researching different stocks, opportunities, new acquaintances on the stock market, and monitoring old ones. Then a bit of construction work in the sandbox and a review of elementary school math
5. How would you describe yourself as an investor?
Reading documentation has made me accustomed to rummaging through all kinds of earnings call transcripts, reports, and other analyses, which serve as a basis for considering approaches and targets. Then I steadily go through various thoughts from both professionals and amateurs on different stocks and their direction, from which, a bit like swarm intelligence, companies that repeatedly pop up are found. I then research those by iterating closer and closer until I narrow them down to a shortlist. I then research those more closely with the goal of acquiring them for my portfolio. For some reason, they tend to be dividend companies, especially from the US. Of course, every now and then short plays also flash in the portfolio, most recently a spot-on Nvidia trade.
6. Could you share what your investment history looks like?
Right from the beginning, in late 2016, it was funnily enough pretty much the same pattern as in the previous answer right at the start of my “career,” resulting in the first purchases being big players in the banking and financial sector in Finland. With better knowledge (ahem), they ended up back in the portfolio too It then continued for the next 3.5 years as boring dividend reinvestment, and the amounts gradually grew. Then came 2020, and for some reason, I got excited about all kinds of “really good” growth companies too 
They provided well-priced lessons, including quite valid ones like reading reports, examining corporate structures, and learning various terminology. And then, of course, slaps on the wrist about what to avoid, no matter how rosy the reports are and how convincing the C-suite is. That subsequently shaped my current investment model, even though it’s a bit unusual compared to the average
7. What does your portfolio look like right now?
Almost entirely large Finnish dividend-paying BDC companies from the US, seasoned with boring dividend companies from various industries, and gradually including the index to act as an easier-to-manage “tech stock” instead of seven. Dividends come in steadily throughout the year, as the majority of them pay quarterly or monthly dividends, and at different times. Pure growth papers have also been present, but right now only one remains.
8. You have a different portfolio compared to a “normal Finnish investor” (well, okay, you do have those dividend payers), choose three companies from your portfolio that are a bit more unfamiliar to the forum members, and tell us in 100 words per company why they interest you in particular?
- Hercules Capital (HTGC)
A business developer/financier operating for 20 years, focusing mainly on technology companies. It first caught my eye because of its fun name, but then due to a stock price growth history even more impressive than the name, coupled with a hefty dividend supplemented by steadily small special dividends. At first, it was hard to even believe, but I just had to conclude that while there are certainly plenty of snake oil companies, not all companies can be bad—there simply have to be 10/10 successes for the stock market to make sense at all And so far, this has been the portfolio’s biggest success alongside a certain Microsoft. The history includes references to companies that later became familiar, such as Docusign, Facebook, Pinterest, Plug Power, Zoom. And many, many others that might be the future equivalents.
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PennantPark Investment (PNNT)This is once again a more traditional finance player, whose determining factor is the teams’ long experience and careful selection of targets from the middle of the market, at least according to the sales pitches. The company’s start was a bit clunkier, but over the last 8 years the direction and playbook have clearly been found, which is why the company, which now pays a monthly dividend, has risen to become the portfolio’s third best-performing holding, right after Microsoft and Hercules. The dividend is probably pretty much at its peak right now, which NII covers just barely, but the yield percentage is then in a league of its own, which the company has nevertheless even continued to increase. So at least they have confidence in the continuation of growth. The company also seems laid-back and even Nordic, mostly in a business as usual sense. Steady work and results, without any elements of suspense.
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CION Investment (CION)
And then, to get a few elements of suspense into the portfolio, I’ve also intentionally included a very young and fast-growing company This is then on the riskier end, with the idea that this could become the giant of the future. At least so far, the direction has been extremely right, both in share price growth and especially in dividend yield growth. This has felt like it alternates between raising the base dividend and paying a special dividend every quarter. It probably won’t go on forever, but let’s enjoy the sun and follow the development with interest, keeping the position appropriate relative to the risk. One decisive factor in the choice was the company’s clear focus on senior secured quality loans, rather than just taking anything for the sake of a higher return. Of course, you get that return from these as well
9. What is your step-by-step stock-picking process?
Continuing forward from question five. Once a company ends up on the shortlist, I follow it for a while in the present and look at what kind of comments come in regarding both future direction and general development, trying to form a picture of what the company’s future could be like. Then I also collect my own unscientific Excel spreadsheet of various metrics, e.g., dividend growth history, share price over the past year, share price over 5 years (also examining the moment right before Covid), the impression of recommendations from various sources, and the like, from which I form 1-3 point ratings, and from those a sum total, which also gives its own kind of hunch about the company. As a sum of many things, I then decide whether to take it into the portfolio, continue to monitor the situation, or steer clear
10. What is your step-by-step stock-selling process?
As a dividend-focused investor, it focuses more on dividend development and news about them. Too big of a cut without a clear plan to return to it (there rarely really has been one) almost certainly leads to consideration of changing horses. Another example is a drastic shift in the market, as happened to Commercial REITs recently – out went all such ones from the portfolio, one by one but steadily, and sometimes separately upon consideration. So a clear change in the segment ultimately drove it. At this point, the list gathered over a longer period from the previous point comes into play, from which a new alternative can then be selected to take its place. I aim to take a new alternative instead of doubling down on the old ones, so that diversification remains sensible. Of course, if there is no good new alternative at that moment, it can also be moved to one of the portfolio’s “tough guys”.
Every now and then when there are purely growth papers, there is some upcoming info (heh heh) behind the driver of the rise or a clear growth direction. Then I usually set a specific target right at the beginning, e.g., a +25% rise, after which I sell at my discretion. If it now clearly rises even more, then of course I’ll play my hand to the end past that mechanical limit. My hit rate has started to rise over time, as has my concentration in the Mag-7
11. Why on earth do you have such foreign companies from the United States in your portfolio? Where do you research US investment targets? Is there anything special you think one should consider when picking US stocks?
The most fundamental driver is the old rule of thumb that, on average, the US stock market always goes up. In other markets, the fluctuation at the market level and also at the company level has been clearly greater, even in “old” companies, as is well known in Finland… Of course, even in the US, you have to look for the genuinely good companies, which, however, due to the size of the country and the market, is easier than elsewhere. Of course, there is also more information available, and companies are researched more closely and with large magnifying glasses. My own information is found right off the shelf after the aforementioned digging, based on which I then research more detailed information from many different sources, e.g., Seeking Alpha, Yahoo Finance, stock news, and simply search results. The key, however, is the number of different sources, which makes the end result more probable. Due to its size, the US also has a lot of chatterers or even trolls, so you shouldn’t take everything without a grain of salt Once again, the use of many different sources is repeated.
12. You’ve also talked relatively a lot about dividends, what is it that interests you in dividends? And in your opinion, what should one look at when picking dividend stocks for the portfolio?
During the practice of the early years, it became very clear that time and understanding are not enough for trading through technical indicators and the like, so it’s better to focus on boring, sure returns, which dividends largely represent. And then, according to the Malmsteen method, “More is more”, so you get a higher dividend yield from the US instead of Finland and Europe. In dividends, too, the need for diversification naturally comes to the fore, especially with riskier targets. For myself, a package of about 10–15 different dividend companies has been sufficiently diversified so that the dividend curve in the portfolio is very clearly rising year after year, even if sometimes even the largest holdings in the portfolio have been completely swapped for another.However, it is important to look specifically at the development of dividends and the share price to avoid yield traps, ensuring the end result isn’t plus-minus zero as the stock price drops by the amount of the dividend yield or even more. Of course, stock prices fluctuate with market conditions, so we must also remember another piece of wisdom – time in the market beats timing the market. A company that has accumulated dividends in a portfolio for a long time can very well remain a profitable position for oneself even after a fairly large cut or price drop, if the company is, on average, stable and well-managed. It is a bit of a gray area as to at what point a dividend has been cut too much or at what point the position’s return sort of cancels it out. But that is where the importance of your own research comes in. To exaggerate, it’s a different thing if, say, IBM cuts its dividend by 20% than if Peran Nakkikioski cuts it by 5%.
13. Does your own field, i.e., “software development,” affect/show in your investing activities in any way? Do you utilize AI in investing, e.g., in researching investment targets?
In addition to the documentation mentioned earlier, probably a basic attitude toward analyticity and crunching numbers. I have tried AI for many different things, such as quick analysis of quarterly reports, but I haven’t really gotten any practical use out of it yet—at least not yet. It would be interesting to try some AI based on technical analysis to see if it provides some nice additional support for decisions. But my own papers tend to be quite slow in their movements, so perhaps you get a better picture just by increasing the annual scale of the chart
14. Name two things that you think are important in stock picking that often receive too little attention?
Many people seem to be quite fast-moving, so perhaps longer-term planning could be a good option at least on some level. E.g., writing down your own goals for a specific investment and then tracking them. The second is, of course, expanding the markets. Even though Finland is familiar and it is often said that you get some home-field advantage when a listed company’s materials and analyses are in Finnish, it still doesn’t remove the essential risks of a small market – high volatility and small transactions in the companies’ own operations. If a Finnish company messes up, say, a 20 million deal, it is often quite a harsh setback and will likely cause a stock dip. In large foreign listed companies, even a deal worth hundreds of millions can get lost in the rest of the basic business.
15. What help and information do you get from the Inderes Forum for your investing that you wouldn’t get anywhere else?
Of course, a direct connection to industry professionals or at least seasoned market veterans Abroad, it might even be difficult with money to get a corresponding connection. And then, of course, more tips on potential companies to research. In Inderes’ case, especially European companies, which in turn are not really followed or even known abroad. There are good companies and events in small stock exchanges too.
16. You have to give your portfolio for three years to four forum members and two Inderes employees; to whom would you give it and why?
I don’t really know that many people well, but let’s say superg, who clearly has things under control, so even a slightly more haphazard portfolio like this would stay in shape From Inderes, then perhaps quite obviously Verppu, the father of all dividends
ping @superg
17. How do you control your emotions in investing?
Through work (talking to a computer ), it comes from muscle memory. Of course, going through the long process before ending up in the portfolio also helps with the matter. Perhaps the greater danger, funnily enough, is letting go too quickly. So far, there has been a good reason for letting go of every “major” paper in the portfolio, and one could almost rank them among investment successes. As additional help, you can, of course, use many pieces of investment wisdom, starting from the traditional “If the CEO or CFO sells, then run” and “Don’t fight the Fed,” as well as the previously mentioned wisdom of time in the market. So it could almost be summarized as watching videos of investing legends Time and technology change, but business truths seem to stay the same.
18. What concrete good has investing brought into your life?
Since one of the goals is not quite FIRE, but a certain kind of security both in working life and someday in retirement, this has already brought a lot of peace of mind. When Excel looks good and the curves have been rising for the fourth year in a row, at least the emotional side is in order. Likewise, the ease of larger purchases, which already brings almost lifelong benefits to the entire economy.
19. Can you give a tip on how Alokas should get to know US companies, or whether he should, since he is a beginner-level investor?
You should start with reliable bedrock companies, either from the Mag-7 or just large, world-class familiar ones whose stock history is rock solid. Even from extremely boring options, you get good growth – often dividends too – and diversification. Depending on risk tolerance and the desire to keep an eye on the company, you could also take something more exciting into the portfolio with a suitable weighting, from which you can then get even large additional streams into your own cash flow. Of course, start small so that a possible catastrophe doesn’t drag you down. And the most important lesson will surely come from following that company – quarterly reports, conference calls, analyses, and others, from which you then get a grip on how such businesses run and live, and in what situations you should examine the report more closely even if the CEO is talking things up as gold bars.
20. Who do you want to especially thank the forum members for?
For interesting content and strong activity. Investment talk can easily end up being boring office work where the first two registered users discuss with each other like “snail mail” Fortunately, that doesn’t happen here, and the chat is appropriately relaxed and not so dead serious
Thanks for the interesting answers! Many people have good ideas, plans, and theses, but the problem is that they don’t stick to a good plan; instead, they deviate from it far too easily. And perseverance doesn’t mean that when things change significantly, you just hang on to a loss, but rather this is where long-term planning comes into play.
We could learn planning from Torniojaws, which brings long-term vision and common sense to what we do, even though many might not admit it—we investors are often short-sighted… and yet we chase stock prices far too emotionally. A carefully crafted investment plan can work wonders, giving you a framework and an understanding of what you are doing, which reduces mistakes made in the heat of emotion and shifts the focus to facts + logic.
My interviewee also mentioned a few investment targets, so feel free to research and read about them.
Have a great weekend!