46. Kevin and Teemu from Sijoituskästi
This time, I’m publishing an interview with Teemu Liila and Kevin van Dessel, the duo behind Sijoituskästi. I came across this duo’s videos early on, and while I thought they were already very good at the start, they have continually evolved and become even higher in quality since. What I appreciate about this pair is that they’ve constantly improved both themselves and what they do—which, in my opinion, is practically a must if you really want to move forward in life.
I believe Kevin and Teemu’s greatest strengths are definitely genuine curiosity and active listening skills. Throughout my life, I’ve run into quite a few “interviewers or hosts” who aren’t genuinely all that interested in what the interviewee has to say, but are instead eager to share their own opinions. Listening skills and curiosity help immensely with learning and personal growth in all areas of life. Thanks to these qualities, among others, Sijoituskästi has likely become so engaging because the interviews have a wonderfully authentic, relaxed conversational vibe where the guest is truly given space to speak.
These guys’ answers will definitely provide some good food for thought, and I strongly recommend following their Sijoituskästi podcast on Spotify or YouTube, for instance. But now, on to the interview itself:
1. Tell us who you are in thirty words.
K: Hey, I’m Kevin—entrepreneur, industrial engineering and management student, and an intermittently active stock picker. I’m also the co-founder and host of the media channel called Sijoituskästi. My days are spent working on the Kästi, which we’re trying to build into an influential and high-quality media outlet.
T: Teemu Liila. I’ve played sports and done athletics my whole life. I put the most effort into ice hockey. Later on, I got interested in investing, we founded Sijoituskästi, and I decided to go to business school as well. I get very grumpy when I’m tired, but generally, I’m a pretty nice guy.
2. Tell us three things the forum members don’t know about you.
K: This is a tough one since we share so much of our lives online, but let’s give it a shot. I take my cat on walks, I’ve played basketball “semi-professionally,” and the first investing-related content I ever consumed was Rahapodi’s legendary “Stocks vs Funds” battle.
T: 1. My sleep schedule has been horrible for the past two years. I’m changing it now. 2. I love pick ‘n’ mix candy, and I eat, if not a kilo a week, an absolute ton of it anyway. 3. My favorite movie is not The Wolf of Wall Street.
3. What are your interests and hobbies? You’re not allowed to mention anything related to investing. 
K: I like cooking, playing golf, and padel. Another goal is to take up hiking. For now, I’m staying far away from basketball.
T: Good food, watching YouTube, tennis, ice hockey, and the gym. Well, probably that pick ‘n’ mix candy, too.
4. What does a typical weekday look like for you?
K: I wake up at 7, brew a cup of coffee, and start answering emails related to Kästi or drafting the structure for the next episode. Then I harass finance gurus or celebrities with guest requests, or companies with collaboration pitches. During the day, quite a few hours are often spent on various shoots. In addition, we brainstorm content with Teemu and the rest of the team. In the evening, when my mental battery starts to run low, I usually do lighter work like replying to comments and giving feedback to our editors on content in production. If I have time in the evenings, I try to hit the gym and hit the sauna.
T: I’m really slow at getting up. Once I’m awake, I work non-stop in a flow until my body tells me it’s time to eat. I eat, then do more work (Sijoituskästi), after which I probably head to the gym and often hit the sauna with friends. Day-to-day life at Sijoituskästi is always a bit different. It typically involves planning with team members, recording episodes, invoicing, paying bills, answering emails, sourcing guests, or totally unexpected gigs.
5. How would you describe yourself as an investor?
K: I strive to find companies that aren’t favored by the crowd for one reason or another. I value growth and competitive advantages. I also recognize what I don’t know, and I strive to learn, challenge my own views, and listen to investors I consider skilled.
T: Pretty reckless. I used to see myself as a “growth investor.” I thought I could find alpha among companies that were already profitable, but still growing. Well, that strategy worked pretty well because I happened to jump in bigger in the summer of 2020. I mainly focus on creating shareholder value for Sijoituskästi Media Oy, and in the stock market, I currently catch falling knives amid general market panic, hoping they’ll turn around. So I have a fairly high risk tolerance. Maybe in the future, I’ll buy index funds using leverage. I’ve strongly considered that.
6. Could you share your investing history?
K: I started investing at 18 through index funds. Funds quickly became boring, so I switched to stock picking. Initially, my portfolio picked up large US companies, and later I shifted toward following less closely covered, smaller companies. I’ve gathered insights from books, online, guests on Sijoituskästi, and maybe a tiny bit from university lectures, given that I study an engineering and business-related field.
T: I started investing in 2019, but I only started studying it more seriously in 2020, which came with a pretty absurd number of lessons. Kevin originally got me excited about diving into investing. Later, I got Kevin excited about making a podcast, so I guess we’re even. In terms of returns, it’s been a decent journey. Sometimes I’ve traded too actively. My current goal is to hold on to quality companies and accumulate more whenever I can. Historically, I’ve managed to beat the indexes. Last year was absolutely brutal when growth stocks plummeted, but this year (YTD +25%) has put me (for now) back above the OMXHGI index and a few other benchmarks.
7. What does your portfolio look like right now? How have you approached portfolio diversification?
K: I have a very concentrated portfolio of 8 companies. I have a strong Finnish bias. Because I have so few companies in my portfolio, I try to focus on business diversification—owning companies that operate in different industries, sell very different types of products and services, and face distinct day-to-day challenges.
T: Harvia 13.7%
Remedy 10%
Meta 9.7%
Qt 9.3%
Noho 6.4%
Dropbox 5.8%
Kamux 5.3% Stockmann 5.2%
Wulff 5.1%
Verkkokauppa.com 4.7%
Nordea 3.9%
Tesla 3.7%
Orthex 3.3%
Netflix 3.1%
Disney 2.8%
FuboTV 1.8%
Rush Factory 1.2%
Inderes 0.8% Cash 4.2%
8. If you were forced to hold one stock in your portfolio for ten years, what would it be and why?
K: That would naturally be Sijoituskästi stock. But if I had to pick from the listed companies currently in my portfolio, Microsoft. Over the long term, I believe first and foremost in people. Management’s decisions and execution ability determine the direction of companies over the long run, and I think Microsoft has truly capable talent. Plus, the company has massive resources, giving leadership enough chips to execute its game plan.
T: Sijoituskästi would be a fairly easy answer, but on the public market side, definitely Harvia. I like Harvia’s products, and saunas are the best. The company is also high quality and operates in an interesting, yet niche market. It also possesses competitive advantages that I believe and hope will last for at least another ten years.
9. What does your stock-picking process look like step-by-step?
K: The process starts with inspiration, which comes from following interesting investors and observing the world around me. I don’t use screeners because, with a busy schedule, I prefer integrating this first stage into my regular daily routine. I primarily try to get to know the company itself—when I find an interesting company, I start reading through annual reports and various analyses I can find. If the company genuinely seems interesting, I try to narrow down an appropriate valuation range. I don’t like using fancy DCF models; instead, I gauge valuation through peers. I also always try to evaluate whether the peers are sensibly priced, or, for example, expensive due to some passing investment trend.
T: I look into stocks here and there, listen to video interviews, and hear my friends’ thoughts. Sometimes my interest gets piqued, and I head over to the Inderes website. If the numbers look good at a quick glance, I move on to examine the stock more closely. In terms of valuation metrics, I track the P/E ratio quite a bit. It’s straightforward, and you can easily weigh the earnings yield against growth metrics. I also rarely buy a company whose return on equity (ROE) is below 10%. (Often it’s at least 20%). After reviewing the financial metrics, I naturally dig into the company in more detail. Inderes’ comprehensive research reports have worked brilliantly here, alongside the company’s own earnings reports. I feel like my own analysis has actually gotten shorter lately. I prefer to just enjoy the stock market and strike when overall market sentiment is unusually negative.
10. Hyzon or Voxtur?
K: As on the Jatkoilla Ruoholahdessa show where this was asked of us, I can still say I haven’t the faintest idea. Let’s say Voxtur this time because the name sounds more fun.
T: I heard about those companies for the first time when we were guests on Jatkoilla Ruoholahdessa. Kevin said Hyzon back then, so I took the other one of the pair: Voxtur.
11. Analyze these three companies in 30 words per company (both of you analyze three companies; you can decide how to split them)
K: Tesla – I think Tesla is a really fascinating company. Personally, I believe in Musk’s ability to scale companies and innovate, and I think he has proven this ability strongly. Tesla’s potential is far greater than that of a typical automaker.
OmaSp – OmaSp is clearly a quality bank that does things a bit differently. Its growth outlook is especially appealing. It feels like the company currently has a “clear runway” to execute its strategy effectively, and I’m glad to hold shares in my portfolio.
Rush Factory – In my view, it’s a small pile of junk. The company carries high risk, and the business demands continuous event successes. But the thing is, even a small pile of junk can be a good investment if you buy it cheap enough.
T: Harvia – I love saunas. Harvia’s great product combined with competitive advantages in a niche market provides solid defensibility. The largest holding in my portfolio is staying put for now. I bought the dip at €14. A bit more expensive now.
Inderes – What fascinates me most about the company is its culture and unique business model. In this day and age, a large and loyal community is the greatest attainable competitive advantage. Getting continuous direct feedback from your own users on the Forum is an absolute treat.
Meta – This stock was a genuine value play as recently as the turn of the year. The perceived threats around the stock cleared up pretty quickly. Now it’s trading at multiples where I’m not adding more. Still holding it, though. Waiting for Musk vs. Zuckerberg.
12. You have a great show with Sijoituskästi, and through it, I understand you are entrepreneurs; do you make a living from its cash flows, and do you have big future plans for Sijoituskästi?
K: Thanks, Alokas! Yes, we are entrepreneurs. Kästi makes a living for us, and we now have a small team working around it. In our view, building a like-minded audience is incredibly valuable—in a way, you’re building a customer base before the product. Through this like-minded audience, we plan to create solutions for both B2B and B2C markets.
T: Thanks for the compliment! Yeah, we make a living and we’re entrepreneurs. I’m not entirely sure yet what Sijoituskästi will ultimately become. We have a rather unique listener community that we’ve managed to grow. You can build all kinds of things around that. Sometimes we have too many ideas and too much enthusiasm.
13. What are the two biggest lessons you’ve learned about investing from making Sijoituskästi?
K: I’ve internalized the importance of patience and a long-term mindset. I believe successful people don’t do extraordinary things; they just do ordinary things for an extraordinarily long time. Sijoituskästi has also grown primarily through patience. I believe this lesson carries far in investing. The second lesson is how much impact the people behind companies have on their development. When you meet the people directing these companies and get to have real conversations with them, you better realize that companies aren’t just numbers on an Excel spreadsheet.
T: A great question, but challenging because most of my investing lessons came from making Sijoituskästi. Preparing for Sijoituskästi episodes has been valuable for stock picking. On the other hand, I might put it the other way around: investing and an extreme passion for it have above all helped grow Sijoituskästi. I’ve analyzed tons of different corporations, and now I try to apply all the best lessons to running Sijoituskästi. Hopefully, my actions help Sijoituskästi generate that famous shareholder value.
14. Tell the forum members why an investor should watch your videos and why? What does Sijoituskästi offer that others don’t?
K: We bring successful and interesting people in front of the audience and ask things others don’t ask. We aren’t trying to push an agenda; we just want to have genuine, high-quality conversations. I think this offers a nice change of pace compared to traditional media.
T: Sijoituskästi offers videos that genuinely help the listener learn something new. In our podcasts and videos, we aim to highlight great stories featuring Finland’s top guests. Quite a few people have said the best part of our episodes is how approachable they are. We aren’t investment professionals, for example, and I don’t recall us ever pretending to be. You should listen to us because we approach episodes from interesting angles and cover topics people actually want to hear about. We also put a huge amount of effort into each episode. I want to know my guest well when I interview them. What bothers me most is when the background research falls short. Fortunately, we’ve received praise for that, and people say our genuine curiosity toward all our guests shines through to the other side of the screen.
15. What is the best thing about the Inderes Forum and why? What are your favorite threads—name at least two?
K: The best part is the forum’s quality and the hive mind it offers. It’s full of dedicated investors sharing their knowledge and research, which is really cool. My favorite threads are the Coffee Room (Kahvihuone) for its entertainment value. Also, Haarumi has somehow stuck in my mind in particular.
T: The best part is definitely the expertise and the good-spirited discussions. I couldn’t believe my eyes at first when I started using the Forum in 2020. A discussion board about stocks where almost every post was constructive and pretty knowledgeable (or at least thoughtful). Often, investing topics on forums don’t work out—they devolve into bizarre shouting matches and become completely unreliable. My absolute favorite thread is Haarumi, because that’s where I’ve spent the most time, and Harvia has always interested me the most. Lately, I’ve unfortunately been rather inactive, so I don’t know all the threads. But the Coffee Room, in its own relaxed way, is another favorite thread.
16. You cannot mention Inderes or Sijoituskästi: what are your best sources of information for investing and why?
K: So the 3rd and 4th best sources? Personally, I’d highlight Twitter (or X) and Quartr. FinTwit is packed with great users sharing their views, and breaking news hits the platform really fast. Quartr isn’t a source per se, but a platform that aggregates company releases in one place. It makes life a bit more convenient, which I value a lot.
T: Yahoo Finance and Macrotrends, if you want quick metrics and trends. Macrotrends is one of the few sites that offers solid historical data going back years for free. Around earnings season, CNBC summarizes the results of major US companies pretty well. Of course, companies’ investor relations pages serve as the highest-quality source of all. They’re even a bit underrated. Maybe that’s due to people being too lazy to read 50-page quarterly reports. Personally, I go through the webcast PDF slides if I don’t feel like reading the whole report.
17. Name four of the best finance Twitter accounts and explain why.
K: hkeskiva – really high-quality threads on investing; also a shameless plug here, as Heikki and I now do a series called Kästi & Keskiväli about stock picking
TheTranscript_ – tweets interesting quotes from US company earnings calls
alc2022 (Antonia Linares) – produces deep-dive, insightful company analyses
InvestmentTraps – the entertainment value of the high priest of the Finnish financial markets’ tweets is top-notch
T: @hkeskiva Heikki has to be on this list. If you genuinely want to learn something new, Heikki has endless amounts of constructive, educational material. @vontuchman, meaning Pekka. Well, pretty much the same reasoning as for Heikki. Pekka also regularly shares his own returns on Twitter, which adds nice flavor. @mirkohurmerinta I don’t know anyone else who speaks about their company with as much passion. I also don’t know anyone who reminds people to start long-term stock investing as often as Mirko. Awesome content overall. Food tweets and gym tweets are a huge plus! @sijoittajalokas The development on Twitter really shows on this account in a tremendous way. Alokas radiates a sincere desire to advance the Finnish investor community. A daily energy boost and fantastic content on investing!
(Ping @Heikki_Keskivali and @Mirko_Sampo_IR tagged you so you see you’ve been mentioned. Best, Alokas )
18. What concrete goals do you have for investing?
K: I want to build a financial cushion that provides independence in my life. As a more unconventional goal, I want to deliver the highest quality content possible around investing—content that inspires, educates, and entertains as many people as possible.
T: Reaching portfolio figures where I can buy whatever I want at the store and enjoy myself as much as I want. Dividends aren’t the primary goal right now, but being able to live off dividends someday would be great. That would already be a good spot to be in. Of course, appetite comes with eating, and by that point, the goals will surely be set much higher. It’s also mentally rewarding to beat the indexes. Maybe leverage will help in the future. That said, investing is such a fun hobby for me that I don’t bother stressing too much. If I end up underperforming, that’s fine too. As long as I had fun “trading” stocks. Up to now, the biggest benefits of investing have been the lessons for entrepreneurship, rather than absolute gains, though those are nice too.
19. How could the “Alokas haastattelee” thread reach the same level of quality as Sijoituskästi?
K: Some might say it’s already there 
But by doing it every week for three years and improving something with every single interview. Simple, though not easy.
T: Isn’t it already? I thought this was a truly fantastic interview thread. The questions were interesting and clearly well-thought-out. Beyond being fun to answer, I believe readers will get a lot out of them as well. Maybe in the future, Alokas will conduct interviews on video, too. Of course, that might reveal your identity. By the way, it would be really cool to know the identities of forum members. I remember being at the Inderes AGM afterparty in 2022 when awards were handed out to distinguished forum members. I was looking around closely, thinking, “All of you are probably here whether you admit it or not.” I did get to know a few who dared to reveal themselves. Sidetracked a bit there, but my best tip is: keep doing what you’ve been doing so far! Step by step toward better and better interviews!
20. What would you especially like to thank the forum members for?
K: Thank you for sharing your hard-earned information and expertise with everyone. Thank you also for keeping the forum’s content civil and constructive. I personally have learned a ton from the forum, and I think it’s wonderful that such a warm-spirited community has formed around investing!
T: For truly rational discussions! Better points than what I usually manage to throw out on the forum! I’m also grateful that forum members always answer questions whenever they come up. It has pushed me forward as an investor.
Thanks to Kevin and Teemu for the great answers!
I was a bit disappointed that I didn’t get a proper answer to the “Hyzon or Voxtur” question. 
I’m really glad that all kinds of excellent investing material are conveniently available online these days—with Inderes and Sijoituskästi being obvious examples. Sijoituskästi is well worth following, as they have done an enormous number of educational interviews with diverse people, such as Heikki Keskiväli and the Inderes team. Make sure to follow Sijoituskästi… thanks!
Thank you and have a great weekend, everyone!