More on that here: Aurinkopaneelit katolla - Reaaliosinkoja päivänpaisteella? - #556 käyttäjältä akka - Vaihtoehtoiset sijoituskohteet - Inderes forum
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Taken in October and the provider is Vattenfall.
Good point!
Edit. Let me correct that, as it’s been too long since math class 
So the price excluding VAT was 6.2611. So with VAT, it’s about 7.7.
I didn’t check if those spot prices in the comparison included VAT.
I have a large electrically heated detached house. Panels on the roof and a fixed-price contract. I don’t intend to switch to any other type of contract.
E: plus a heat-storing fireplace
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Soininvaara is already reflecting on the problems related to the electricity market model decided upon long ago; back then, the production structure was completely different from what it is today.
Now, it is not worth investing in stable production, and even wind power—with its low variable costs—is in a challenging state: the price is low whenever it actually happens to be windy.
https://www.soininvaara.fi/2022/10/16/sahkomarkkinoilla-on-alettava-maksaa-myos-kapasiteetista/
I have almost the same strategy. A fixed 6-month contract at 9.5 c/kWh for the winter and then back to spot-price electricity in April during the spring floods, when the panels produce the electricity needed for daytime use. If spot price had been in effect yesterday, it would have cost three weeks’ worth of money. So far I have been happy with the solution, even if I might pay a bit more. Now we wait for autumn and for the price of winter contracts to drop.
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I managed yesterday’s energy-saving efforts quite well; the cost of electricity came to 14.1 kWh and €15.3 for the day. No rush to switch to a fixed-rate contract, but it really starts to feel like too much of a hassle to keep the price reasonable if these types of days become more common in the future.
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This is perhaps the best explanation for why spot electricity prices got out of hand – the price elasticity of demand was badly miscalculated. I just find it hard to understand how, in this era of data and AI, there isn’t more relevant information on the impact of electricity prices on demand. It’s as if the electricity companies’ buyers assumed, on behalf of their customers, that consumption would remain unchanged, even though we already saw last winter where expensive energy leads: turning room temperatures down to a minimum even at the risk of pipes freezing, heating with wood, avoiding saunas and the use of washing machines/dishwashers, eating microwave meals, etc. Although the “error” was only 1000 MwH, it drove electricity prices to record highs, as there was already higher-than-normal demand due to the severe frost. Besides the electricity companies themselves, spot price customers were also the ones paying the bill. The price mechanism of the electricity exchange clearly isn’t working when a similar error last autumn went the other way, but only resulted in -0.50 eur/kWh. In other words, human errors affect the price far too much. In yesterday’s situation, those with fixed-price contracts naturally had no incentive to participate in the energy-saving efforts. In the autumn, during negative spot prices, sauna stoves and electrical appliances were on full blast, even if fuses were blowing. The system is clearly too vulnerable to manipulation—whether intentional or unintentional. In the words of Mauno Koivisto: “Something ought to be done.”
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When and where did you get a contract like that? It seems like those 6-month contracts aren’t really available anywhere.
I went with Helen. I think it was at its best around 9 cents at the end of September. It has certainly risen a bit since then. Personally, I found it quite flexible for my own finances, as there’s no need to fiddle or adjust things during the winter, and the calculated losses aren’t significant. I’m happy to pay for the convenience of not having to unplug water heaters and such.
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Following the news over the last few days, I’ve started to feel that the mantra “Spot electricity is the cheapest option in the long term” is actually dangerous when looking at people with low financial literacy. These people don’t really understand how to build a buffer from savings accumulated during low consumption and low price periods to compensate for these more expensive periods. In the news article, all the interviewees are spot price customers. If they didn’t understand the contract they signed, should they be appointed legal guardians?
However, there are options for hedging, as has been noted on this forum as well.
Of course, the same lack of foresight was observable when the price of diesel exceeded the price of E95. Long-term benefits were immediately forgotten as soon as the situation turned negative for oneself.
This would be quite smart for the system’s sake. I wonder if it would work in practice, though? I’ll take my own situation as an example, as I had a “50% fixed (8.5c) + 50% spot” contract until the summer, which I got just in the nick of time right before the 2022 energy crisis. My electricity consumption with a 100% remote work + studio apartment combo is almost exactly 1000 kWh per year. At first, I tried to time my consumption as well, but I soon realized it doesn’t really matter much financially. In short, my electricity consumption is low and doesn’t offer much flexibility. During the day, the stove/oven is probably the only significant application that can be shifted. I can almost always move the washing machine by a day in either direction. That kind of kilowatt per day doesn’t mean much in the big picture when someone’s detached house gulps down 10 kW every hour.
This morning, a three-month fixed-price electricity bill arrived:
| Row | Amount | Unit price | Total price |
|---|---|---|---|
| Basic transmission fee | 3 months | €6.98 | €20.94 |
| Variable transmission* | 252.34 kWh | 4.5437 c | €11.46 |
| Basic electricity fee | 3 months | €3.98 | €11.94 |
| Consumed electricity | 252.34 kWh | 11.79 c | €29.75 |
| VAT | - | - | €14.34 |
| Total | - | - | €74.10 |
*Variable includes transmission fee, security of supply fee, and excise tax
In October and December, consumption was 93 kWh, and in November 64 kWh (I was away for a couple of weeks), so about 30 kWh could be added to the total consumption. At least in my household, there wouldn’t be much price elasticity for electricity, because even if I got the electricity for free (assuming constant consumption), the final total of my bill would be €37.2. In an ideal situation (electricity 0c/kWh), I would save €36.9, or ~€12/month. Due to my consumption profile, I can’t really benefit from cheap hours, so my average spot price would inevitably trend closer to the upper than the lower end. Assuming it was 8c, the potential savings would be €4/month. Roughly speaking, however, every cent would affect the bill by about a euro.
It’s not really worth investing or taking action for those four euros. My own contract, taken at a rather bad time, is still quite competitive. If you think about it from a risk profile perspective: My daily consumption is almost exactly 3 kWh. Yesterday’s average price was €1.1/kWh, for me probably even a bit more. But in practice, about one day ate the estimated monthly benefit. Of course, days like this don’t happen every month, but in the end, it’s a pretty sensitive equation.
Perhaps these should be calculated out with actual consumption, but as it stands, from my perspective, the basic fee of the contract and the electricity distribution company have a greater impact on the bill than the price I pay for the electricity itself.
Most of you have probably already read this, but here’s a story about a guy with the opposite philosophy, Mikko from Kerava: Keravalainen Mikko on hionut sähkön säästönsä lähes timanttiseksi - Ilta-Sanomat
Let’s calculate the profitability of some measures:
Filling a 5 kg LPG cylinder costs about €20 (assuming the cylinder belongs to a grill). According to Wikipedia, the energy content of LPG is 12.8 kWh/kg, so the price in that package size comes to 31.25 c/kWh. In theory, heating a liter of water from 20 degrees to boiling takes about 0.01 kWh, but let’s round it to 0.1 kWh due to sub-optimal conditions and power losses. The savings from boiling, say, 3 liters with gas vs. an electric kettle at the most expensive moment are (235-31) x 0.1 kWh = 20 cents.
A large fridge-freezer, on the other hand, consumes about 0.7 kWh/day according to Sähkösanomat, and a large freezer 1.5 kWh/day. Turning these off saves 2.2 kWh, or €2.42. I assume some of this is lost during the restart?
Finally, lighting. The light at my workstation is some basic IKEA 5W LED bulb. So, the consumption per day is 0.005 kW x 24h = 0.125 kWh, which is €0.14. I’m willing to bet this is a net loss compared to using batteries.
To my eyes, the only sensible action is handling heating with a fireplace, although firewood is rarely free either.
The youth would probably say it wasn’t worth it (wörtti)! No cap!
It’s hard for AI to predict reliably if it hasn’t been taught a similar situation. One must remember that such high prices are not seen very often. Human electricity consumption doesn’t behave linearly even as a simple function of price. When the price rises, some kind of base consumption remains, as not everyone can lower their consumption to zero even if they wanted to. Same in the other direction. Consumption cannot, even in theory, rise indefinitely, no matter how negative the price becomes, because there is a limited number of electricity-consuming devices in the world. These are the absolute extremes.
In addition to price, features should probably include at least temperature, day of the week, possible holiday/vacation, people’s emotions, and how optimally people behave. Some act very rationally, and for a certain part of the population, that is a completely utopian expectation. Furthermore, human behavior is surprisingly difficult to predict accurately even in simple matters, as choices are influenced by values, encountered influence, education, etc.
In my opinion, the price mechanism works, because even negative prices can be a positive thing for a power producer. For example, shutting down and restarting a nuclear power plant is such a large and expensive operation that it’s a lesser evil to sell the produced electricity at a negative price for a while. Similarly, when demand threatens to exceed production, the spot price rises, which encourages reducing voluntary consumption and bringing previously unprofitable energy production into use. Examples of this include the mentioned use of LPG and generators. It must be remembered, however, that the production and consumption of the power grid must always match. In water pipes, the “cutter” works, meaning if everyone opens their taps at the same time, a little bit trickles from each. Electricity, on the other hand, either flows freely or not at all.
In theory, the price formation of spot electricity could be made more efficient if consumers were also willing to develop their operations. Every household on spot electricity would report their electricity consumption needs for the coming day or even hour automatically. In this case, the spot price of electricity would be formed more accurately because consumption wouldn’t need to be estimated on the high side just to be safe, as happened yesterday. Those who underestimated their consumption would have to buy more expensive electricity or sit in the dark. Those whose consumption is below the estimate could sell theirs to over-consumers or activate (automatically) flexible consumption (such as heating or a water boiler, etc.). In my opinion, however, the effort here exceeds the benefit if a more expensive fixed-price contract is also an option.There are numerous posters here as well who have “earned” significant sums of money by optimizing their spot-priced electricity consumption, so why should they be punished because some “Irma” writing to Ilta-Sanomat committed to a contract whose terms or price formation mechanism she doesn’t understand? Generally in this world, you have to pay someone if you lack the will or ability to understand something yourself. This is the very core of the service industry, from car maintenance to barbers.
In my opinion, spot-priced electricity is an incredibly well-functioning contract model where, under certain conditions, it is possible to save a significant amount of money. For those seeking security and for lazy people like myself, fixed-rate contracts are available.
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Yesterday was an easy one:
Consumption: 2.99 kWh
Cost: €1.96
Using Fortum Tarkka with a 0.40 margin, and obtained through a friend, the basic fee is €0 for 6 months.
My parents’ house’s electric heating would have been around €500 including transmission fees, so they decided to postpone their domestic trip and stay home throwing logs into the boiler 
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Detached house consumption is around 9,000 kWh/year; we have a fixed contract because we are away from home a lot, which is when it is heated with electricity. We can’t really influence consumption remotely by using the fireplace.
I took a fixed contract again in the autumn, 9.16 c/kWh + transfer. Electricity bills including transfer hover around the €140–220/month level, so these kinds of expensive spot price days could rack up a monthly bill in less than a week. I got lucky this time; I was home for a week, so consumption stayed around 70–95 kWh daily even though the fireplace was heated constantly; without that, it would probably have been 100–120 kWh a day. I look at it as not having to “stress” all the time and think about prices when I’m away from home. Last winter didn’t inspire confidence; talk about electricity getting cheaper is surely true in the long run, but again we saw that even prices over €2 are possible. Everyone plays their own way; I like this. 
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30 posts were merged into the thread: Energy saving - tips for consumption
Hi there!
Flags have been flying and messages have been coming in, but perhaps not all messages fit this thread perfectly. Most of the messages have certainly been useful and good. 
We had a “meeting” with the moderation team to refine the idea.
So, the name of this thread is now:
1. Electricity market - contracts and their prices
The opening posts of this thread:
and
2. Another thread
Messages from this thread will be moved to the thread below (not all, but the most recently flagged ones). The title doesn’t yet cover all topics contained in the messages to be moved, and the opening post hasn’t been updated yet, but that should happen in the near future. So, messages that don’t fit this thread can be posted here, for example:
https://keskustelut.inderes.fi/t/energiansaasto-vinkkeja-kulutukseen/38264
Titles and opening posts will be clarified further, but this was a quick fix.
You should use this guide if you want to reply to a post in another thread:
https://keskustelut.inderes.fi/t/ohjeita-foorumin-kayttoon-foorumilaisille/33597/2
So, in short:
Posts according to the title and opening post go in this thread.
Then, you can post messages that don’t fit this thread in that other thread.
Opening posts will likely be clarified in the near future, and titles will be polished, etc. Let’s go with this for now.
Apologies, thank you for your understanding, and have a nice day!
Best regards, Alokas and the moderation crew
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Attached is a news article from Kauppalehti regarding rising futures. A few highlights from the news:
- January future prices have risen from 9 cents to 18 cents per kilowatt-hour. There are also increases for February and March.
Today’s Iltalehti also featured a spring weather forecast, which contained nothing dramatic. February has typically been the coldest month, which can have an impact on electricity prices.
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15 posts were merged into the thread: Energy saving - tips for consumption
@Sijoittaja-alokas
WIPE IT
I can’t even be bothered to flag anymore, move this one elsewhere too.
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Hi once again! 
It’s not that serious.
In our eyes, nothing serious has happened in the history of the thread, even though some individual posts have been deleted and several good posts have been moved to another thread, for one reason or another.
I have now moved posts to another thread where this topic can be discussed a bit more broadly and freely.
There are two threads:
1. This thread is about electricity sales contracts.
2. Then there is another thread for posts that don’t fit here, where these related themes can be discussed more broadly and freely.
(the title is a bit of a work in progress 
)
https://keskustelut.inderes.fi/t/energiansaasto-vinkkeja-kulutukseen/38264?u=sijoittaja-alokas
In this thread, in accordance with the opening post, we discuss electricity sales contracts, their terms, and prices, which the thread creator mentioned in their opening post.
Below the opening post is another message where the thread creator adds that, so the discussion about electricity contracts offered nationwide doesn’t spread to other threads, you can present electricity contract prices, offers, and terms in this thread. So you don’t just have to talk about your own contract prices, but also more broadly about your contract and general offers related to contracts.
So electricity sales contracts are the theme of the thread, and it probably doesn’t matter if the discussion deviates slightly from the topic for a few posts. But if this is an Electricity Sales Contract thread according to the title and opening posts, then the majority of the messages should relate to the contract.
However, mentions of your own fireplaces, consumption in detached houses, and various aspects of underfloor heating are perhaps a bit off-topic. I understand if someone is considering the consumption figures for their own place or the consumption figures for televisions, but if it doesn’t relate to electricity contracts or prices, it’s better suited for the other thread. Also, various saving tips that don’t directly relate to electricity sales contracts, or how a certain type of housing is low-consumption, or how one measures consumption themselves, or how the stove affects consumption.
It is completely understandable that people write more or less off-topic regarding the opening posts, and there is nothing wrong with that. The posts have been high quality. It’s not intended to offend anyone if posts are moved, and usually, they go together with several other posts at the same time, like the most recent times. Sorry if someone has taken offense at these or if I have written something wrong.
Once more:
-
This thread deals with electricity sales contracts.
-
Then there is the other thread (which has a clumsy title for now) that can be accessed via the link and is also found in the opening post. There you can discuss consumption figures, the benefits of your housing type regarding consumption, the benefits brought by a fireplace, different ways to save, etc. If the topic does not relate to the terms, prices, or offers of electricity sales contracts, it can be discussed in the other thread. This can be the thread for broader discussion around these themes.
I understand the numerous flags and various requests, but on the other hand, these are fairly small human errors, and in my opinion, there’s no need to get angry if posts wander off-topic. You can deviate from the topic a little for a few posts; it’s a different matter if the discussion goes off the rails and it becomes difficult to find posts related to electricity sales contracts - we go by the opening posts and the title… in good spirits.
The moderation team doesn’t have a strong opinion or feeling about these threads, but we are happy to organize things so that everything goes as smoothly as possible. We do our best, even though we are bumbling sometimes. Forum members don’t need to get angry at each other or get angry if we move a good post to another thread. It’s a different matter if you’ve written a three-hour analysis of UPM with a serious mind and Verneri moves it to the Meme thread.
And just relax if posts occasionally stray from the topic by accident; it happens. I myself don’t know much about this world, so I’m in no position to say.
Refinements will indeed be made to the opening posts, especially to the title of the second thread. I think that’s all.
I apologize for taking your time and sorry for things that haven’t gone perfectly.
Kiitos ymmärryksestä ja hyviä keskusteluja!
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My apologies if this has already been discussed ad nauseam in this thread, but I finally wanted to vent a little about my local power company’s pricing…
I understand that fixed-rate contracts have more “fat” baked into them compared to spot-priced electricity, which has straightforward and transparent pricing for the buyer. It’s the same with all derivative products—for instance, a mortgage with an interest rate cap, or when companies hedge their interest rate, currency, or commodity risks → the pricing is complex and allows for higher margins.
What I don’t like is the use of a so-called “fear factor.” My local utility raises the prices for fixed contracts IMMEDIATELY as soon as severe cold spells are forecasted, which presumably leads to higher spot prices. To be honest, I don’t believe that 2-year futures move up so quickly that fixed rates would need to be hiked immediately. And as you might guess, fixed prices are much slower to react on the downside when spot electricity is cheap. It’s a bit like the gas pump phenomenon, usually justified by the price of oil.
Does anyone else have experience with this, or are my conclusions about futures pricing incorrect?
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When our housing company switched to geothermal heating, I tried to evaluate different contract types from a layman’s perspective. I ended up with the initial thought that spot-priced electricity would be more or less “suicide” with geothermal heating. That is:
- The colder it gets, the hotter the water the radiator network requires.
- The larger the temperature difference between the ground and the radiator network (i.e., the hotter the radiators), the lower the system’s efficiency (was it COP?).
- Peak power efficiency is especially poor if the system is so-called undersized, meaning that during peaks, water occasionally has to be heated with electricity alone (COP = 1 in this situation??).
- There is a strong correlation between the system’s power demand and the spot price, as has been seen this month as well.
- In housing company implementations, there is very little, if any, “room for maneuvering”—meaning the ability to adjust consumption based on price.
I don’t really know much about our company’s implementation, or even what kind of electricity contract we have. The accuracy of the sizing also makes me wonder, as the system includes dozens of wells where the drilling success varied. How accurately can over/under-sizing be predicted, taking into account things like all transmission losses, etc.? But it’s still interesting to follow how the costs will compare to the replaced district heating.
So, to summarize my initial layman’s guess: if there is any case where a fixed-term contract beats spot electricity 100-0, it would be housing company geothermal heating.
It would be nice if someone further along could share their insight or experience on the subject.
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