Rivian - Back on the rise?

First and foremost: This is not an investment advice thread. Instead, the purpose of this thread is to gather Rivian experts and news in one place, without constant comparisons to other similar companies.

November 10, 2021, was an exciting time when Rivian “RIVN” went public in one of the largest IPOs ever. With strong backing from both Ford and Amazon, including an order for 100,000 vehicles, Rivian raised 12-14 billion (this amount seems to change depending on where you look) in direct cash reserves. The company was valued at up to 127 billion, catapulting Rivian directly into the ranks of the most valuable electric car companies and a challenger to Tesla.

The valuation in early November 2021 was even this absurd:

The stock price was $78 at IPO, and soon after the initial hype – and a very generous market situation – the price even reached (the current ATH) around $172 by November 16. It went to the moon.

Since then, the market situation of 2021’s exuberance has become more realistic. After Rivian made a few PR blunders (first tried to raise the price of already ordered cars for customers citing increased costs and also fought with a seat manufacturer subcontractor over pricing) and then Rivian announced supply chain issues, the stock price plummeted sharply, even reaching $20.60 on May 11, 2022.

By the end of trading on August 15, Rivian’s stock price has recovered somewhat, being around $37.28.

Perhaps the biggest factor in Rivian’s decline, however, was that the company initially announced it would produce up to 50,000 cars in 2022. Later in early 2022, the company announced it could not meet this target and halved its goal to 25,000 cars, which naturally caused a critical reaction. Since then, Ford and Amazon have recorded significant losses so far in Rivian’s early stages.

However, Rivian still benefits from the overly high initial pricing. While many startup and growth companies are desperately seeking funding, Rivian has a solid 15.5 billion in its own assets (situation after Q2 2022). Assets are needed, as Rivian incurred a loss of 1.71 billion in Q2 2022, and 5 billion has been allocated from that for a new factory.

However, Rivian has so much wealth in its pocket that the company is calmly planning future strategies, new models, the development of a charging network, and that new factory. To reassure investors and the future, however, the company laid off 6% of its workforce in July 2022. This meant the layoff of approximately 800 employees out of a total of 14,000.

Q2 2022 was the first quarter for the company when a significant number of cars were produced (4,401 units) and revenue was generated (364 million dollars). Rivian’s success in late 2022, however, is largely linked to whether the company will reach its target of 25,000 cars produced. In the Q2 review, Rivian itself confirmed – for the second time – that the target will be met. However, this requires the production of 18,000 cars in the second half of 2022, and production efficiency must increase significantly to achieve this. The Irvine plant should eventually produce 150K cars per year, so capacity will be there. The question is whether production can be made more efficient this year and whether there will be enough material in the market.

Orders don’t seem to be an issue; Rivian has 90,000 reservations for R1T and R1S models. Rivian also received 8,000 new car orders during Q2 '22, so despite the worse market situation, expensive Rivian cars seem to be selling well. Also, reading comments from Rivian customers, these adventure vehicles are quite popular.

Rivian stands out in the market by offering more expensive cars (starting from $80K) and branding itself as an adventure brand in its early stages. This is a bold strategy, but it distinguishes Rivian in that it does not directly compete on price, for example, against Tesla. Rivian plans to bring a more affordable option to market by 2025 at the earliest, and in that sense, Rivian resembles Tesla in its early years. Rivian’s brand is currently focused on adventure, and Rivian’s electric car models are designed with wilderness conditions in mind.

Rivian has its own factory in Irvine, California, and the intention is to build another factory in Georgia. Rivian services its cars itself, and continuous additional revenue is also intended to be generated from Rivian’s electric car charging network in North America (including Canada). Its own production, own service, and charging network are different choices, as fresh startup electric car companies usually don’t seem to have them.

Development has occurred, but Rivian is still relatively expensive compared to its operations, even though its market value has dropped to 33 billion. It is therefore definitely a growth company for which the market situation is not forgiving.

The company has had, is having, and will have a fascinating journey, so Rivian is worth keeping an eye on.

News/articles:

On IPO:
https://www.investopedia.com/rivian-ipo-what-happened-and-why-it-matters-5209505#:~:text=Rivian%20went%20public%20under%20the,close%20of%20trading%20on%20Nov.

Early stage problems:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2021/12/17/rivian-shares-fall-to-record-low-as-company-warns-of-supply-chain-issues/?sh=73b3f42b18a4

Latest figures Q2 2022:

Rivian, for its part, enables Amazon’s electric car armada with its vans (the goal is to have 100,000 of these Rivian vans in traffic by 2030):
https://www.geekwire.com/2022/amazon-begins-rollout-of-rivian-electric-delivery-vans-across-u-s-in-drive-to-shrink-carbon-footprint/

Amazon rolls out all-electric delivery trucks from Rivian in Bloomington, IL as part of company's zero-carbon pledge by 2040 - ABC7 Chicago.

This is what the vans going to Amazon look like (they also include their own software):

Amazon employee comments on Rivian’s electric vans:

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The text certainly contains errors from start to finish, and important things are missing, my apologies! :smiley: The opening will be corrected over time.

It felt like the General EV thread no longer served its purpose as companies progressed, so it’s good to start separating companies from it one by one.

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A good article that neatly summarizes Rivian’s situation, both its potential and its risks.

I’m a bit puzzled that Rivian’s quarterly loss of $1.7 billion is highlighted as a big deal, with statements like “the cash register could be empty in six quarters at this rate.” These analyses often fail to consider that Rivian’s revenues will surely grow over six quarters (it was already $364 million, and just that x6 would make $2.1 billion, and it should scale).

Cash reserves are indeed $15 billion, with an estimated $5 billion going into a new factory that will be operational in 2025. That’s pretty good for the current market situation.

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Linking it here too. :+1:

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Rivian is constantly in the news on the big continent, so I thought I’d put links to the latest news here, if only so I can find them easily later. :smiley:

Rivian’s TJ in CNN news related to the cancellation of pre-orders for cheaper models.

  • Focus on increasing production
  • Few orders for the cheapest models
  • (My opinion: Although it’s not stated, the profit margin on these was probably not very large due to rising costs):

New public bus route coming to Rivian’s plant in Illinois:

Apparently, Mexican workers who worked on the construction of Rivian’s plant in Illinois had not received overtime pay, but now they will.

According to the court decision, however, Rivian was not involved in the matter in any way, but rather intermediaries:

Seeking Alpha has recently started rating Rivian more positively:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4536249-rivian-automotive-has-upside-potential

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4535143-rivian-stock-sellers-left-time-stop-fearing-buy-more

Motley Fool comments on Q2 results:

A couple of potential glitches in new Rivians:
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/rivian-also-seems-to-suffer-from-whompy-wheels-what-caused-this-one-to-fall-off-196629.html#

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/a-new-ford-vs-rivian-test-proves-the-r1t-has-a-phantom-drain-problem-196535.html?utm_source=ae_self&utm_medium=ae_gallery&utm_campaign=ae_gallery_moreon

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Well, you can make investments this way too. New Rivian R1S cars have slowly started to be delivered to customers, and one of them decided to put their new car up for auction immediately.

The pre-order price for the car was $80,950, and apparently, it was already bid up to $119,000 at auction a while ago.

Not a bad deal for the person who ordered the car. :mage:

https://insideevs.com/news/608015/first-rivian-r1s-for-sale/

Rivian has also been in the headlines for other reasons:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2022/08/31/whats-new-with-rivian-stock/?sh=48ad45de1c52

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Rivian and Mercedes announced their intention to collaborate on the production of electric vans.

RJ Scaringe, Chief Executive Officer of Rivian:

“Rivian was created to encourage the world to transition away from fossil fuel consumption by creating compelling products and services. We’re delighted to be partnering with Mercedes‑Benz on this project. Mercedes‑Benz is one of the world’s best known and respected automotive companies, and we believe that together we will produce truly remarkable electric vans which will not only benefit our customers, but the planet.”

Mathias Geisen, Head of Mercedes-Benz Vans:

“As a pioneer in the field of locally emission-free transportation Mercedes‑Benz Vans has gained broad experience in producing and launching eVans since 2010. Now we are accelerating the transformation to a fully electric product portfolio. From 2025 onwards, all vans based on our new architecture VAN.EA will be electric-only. I am delighted that as part of this transformation we are now joining forces with Rivian - a highly dynamic and inspiring partner with a strong technology position. We are sharing investments and technology because we also share the same strategic ambition: accelerating the electrification of the van market with sustainable and superior products for our customers.”

https://www.rivianownersforum.com/threads/rivian-may-build-future-mercedes-vans.3816/

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220908005278/en/Mercedes-Benz-Vans-and-Rivian-move-to-partner-on-electric-van-production

This was well received by investors when the stock market opened, although gains have been fleeting in the market. Still, a big deal!

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Biggest recent news bundled

Good:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/03/rivian-production-grows-67percent-in-3q-confirms-2022-goals.html

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/features/rivian-introduces-new-platform

Bad:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/07/rivian-recalls-13000-vehicles-due-to-loose-fastener.html

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/georgia-state-court-rejects-incentive-plan-rivian-5-bln-plant-2022-10-03/

Analysis:
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/is-rivian-automotive-stock-a-buy-now

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Rivian’s strong showing for October: On 10/8, it was announced that about 13,000 cars required an urgent fix, and by 10/20, they had already announced that almost all cars had been repaired. Instead of relying on external parties, Rivian mobilized its own technicians and arranged repairs in a way that suited customers. Customers’ reports on the “operation” have been exemplary: they received a call, agreed on a time and place, technicians arrived on site, and the actual repair took about 10 minutes.

Rivian’s idea has always been to service its cars themselves.

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Rivian’s Q3 2022 earnings review is scheduled for next Wednesday after the close of the American markets. I’m as nervous and terrified as a small squirrel, knowing the market will ruthlessly punish even the slightest tremor.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/will-rivian-rivn-pull-off-a-beat-this-earnings-season

Q2 revenue was $364 million; Q3 revenue is projected to be just over $500 million.

Losses are expected to be around $1.5-1.7 billion again, but the focus will be on whether Rivian reaffirms its target of 25,000 vehicles this year (Rivian recently confirmed that things are looking good) and what Rivian says about the near future, especially concerning components.

Rivian still has enough capital to last until 2025, with $5 billion already allocated for the new Georgia plant.

This plant is being built as planned (2025), even though Georgia’s promised tax breaks and bonds are still under judicial review after a judge rejected the proposal. However, it sounds like both the state and Rivian have a consensus that this is a hindrance, not a barrier:

A positive analysis of Rivian as a company, predicting a good future:

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/rivian-reasons-to-buy/

The cars continue to receive praise:

Then, the negative part, cleverly hidden at the end (heh):

Rivian announced to pre-order holders the removal of certain features, and some early reservation holders (who had ordered the largest battery option) will only receive their vehicles in 2024. This has naturally caused controversy (Rivian tried to cancel pre-orders and raise prices at the beginning of the year but had to give up the plan due to a fierce backlash). However, from what I’ve followed on forums, other commenters have reminded those who were furious that they are welcome to order a similar vehicle elsewhere, and (in addition to getting their own order sooner) the price will be higher and delays are significant elsewhere too.

Rivian’s move is unfortunate from the customer’s perspective, though the strategy behind it is easy to understand: RJ Scaringe is fully committed to increasing production volumes and streamlining the vehicle throughput process. Every moving part causes additional complications and delays.

https://insideevs.com/news/619380/rivian-r1t-max-pack-deliveries/

Finally, my own thoughts specifically on Scaringe (the CEO): Over the summer, I read a few analyses that wished Scaringe was as audacious as Musk, Bezos, or Zuckerberg. That Scaringe is too “normal” and boring and doesn’t stand out. Having now read about Musk’s antics and studied Zuckerberg’s money-wasting, I’d rather choose a leader like Scaringe, whose actions can be anticipated and decisions better understood. You know what you’re getting, and that’s good just as it is.

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Rivian’s Q3 results are out and pretty much in line with expectations. Revenue reached $536 million. The company produced 7,363 vehicles and delivered 6,584 in Q3.

More detailed data here:

As expected, significant losses were incurred, but even after that, there is still $14 billion in cash. This is sufficient until 2025.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4555654-rivian-automotive-inc-rivn-q3-2022-earnings-call-transcript?mailingid=29651250&messageid=2800&serial=29651250.5859&utm_campaign=rta-stock-article&utm_medium=email&utm_source=seeking_alpha&utm_term=29651250.5859

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4555658-rivian-q3-earnings-show-decent-progress?mailingid=29651405&messageid=2800&serial=29651405.5075&utm_campaign=rta-stock-article&utm_medium=email&utm_source=seeking_alpha&utm_term=29651405.5075

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4555718-rivian-positive-q3-read-throughs-but-not-enough-to-spur-share-rebound

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This is what I’m perhaps most excited about, now that I’m looking into it a bit more closely. Demand is very strong, even though proper marketing hasn’t even been done, and there’s plenty of work in the backlog. The cars have been so popular that a large price tag hasn’t been an issue, and the types of people who can afford a car closer to €100K don’t seem too worried about higher interest rates yet.

Cash: :white_check_mark:
Orders: :white_check_mark:
Clear plan for the next five years: :white_check_mark:

Even if the idea of building a joint factory in Europe with Mercedes-Benz were to materialize sooner, more cash would be needed before 2024-2025.

And apparently, production at the Georgia factory is now expected to begin in 2026.

I don’t believe the stock price will jump too much based on these results, but it’s good to get confirmation that the direction is the right one.

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What is the basis for extrapolating the “Deliveries” curve as exponential growth? Does the company really use such a small portion of its capacity that it can practically seven-fold production in a year? Part of the improvement will certainly come from process development, but it sounds like pretty drastic growth.

In practice, even doubling production requires a lot of resources, starting from employee training and adaptation. Rivian plans to double production roughly every 4-5 months. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it sounds very optimistic to my ears.

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This 25,000-unit annual target is half of what was touted in last year’s IPO; originally, they promised 50,000 cars already this year. That guidance was withdrawn early this year (citing component shortages), and the stock dropped for good reason. So, this 25K target isn’t even worth celebrating if they reach it, but it’s an absolute minimum for now.

For several years, the current factory’s capacity was touted as a maximum of 150,000 cars annually. That would leave 37,500 units per quarter, meaning, according to that graph, the factory would be fully utilized by the end of next year. Due to component shortages, it’s unlikely they’ll reach that, which seems clear.

Otherwise, they’ve only just introduced a second shift in general, so the factory’s potential has been relatively underutilized. Rivian’s own estimates for next year are still reportedly undisclosed (that picture was just from one of those Seeking Alpha news articles).

Correction, there was an estimate for next year:

  • Initial projections for 2023 based on relatively stable chip/parts supply and streamlined production under a second shift points to deliveries between 61,500 to 82,000.
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Rivian has announced that they are not coming to Europe with Mercedes at this time after all. The financial situation is challenging, and Rivian wants to focus on the ramp-up and profitability of both its current and future Georgia factory first.

The stock will surely take a hit at least initially, but I’m mainly relieved by this because Rivian’s 14 billion cash reserves won’t last forever. Five billion of those are, however, reserved for the ramp-up of the new factory.

Now it’s easier to see the company’s cash reserves easily lasting for a couple of years, and no additional financing is needed.

https://www.ft.com/content/ea197d34-1680-4420-90bd-9edf0918ab69

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Oh right, and Rivian is joining the Nasdaq 100 index before the December 19 trading day.

https://www.investors.com/news/rivian-globalfoundries-joining-nasdaq-100-index-apple-chipmaker-china-stocks-falling-off/

2022 is a wrap. Rivian’s Q4 2022 review is likely not until February-March; there is no information yet.

But here is how the year looked:

Rivian has about 13-14 billion in cash, and the company is currently valued at around 17 billion. EV hype completely fizzled out in December, and the stock slid down along with Tesla.

Summa summarum, bears and bulls:

Bears:

  • The joint factory project with Mercedes ended (though this could also be a bull scenario; it’s good to save money now and make operations profitable first)
  • There were bedbugs at the factory, which was widely reported
  • EV hype subsided
  • The large $1.7 billion loss in Q3 spooked the market with a couple of months’ delay

Bulls:

  • Rivian announced it is investing in green energy at its factories (many solar panels are being installed)
  • Rivian was added to the Nasdaq 100 list in December
  • The 25,000-car target was apparently broken (there were reports around the New Year that Rivian held a “25k party” for its employees. Official confirmation will likely come in the next few weeks).
  • Rivian’s R1T was voted the second-best “truck” of the year, after the F150 Lightning
  • The R1T received excellent results in safety tests
  • Permitting issues for the upcoming factory were resolved
  • Both the R1T and R1S qualify for Biden’s upcoming EV transition relief law ($7,500 tax credits)

Highlights from various articles from the end of the year:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4564160-rivian-right-move-to-focus-on-us-production-now-not-mercedes

https://www.hotcars.com/ota-update-rivian-r1t-r1s-more-range-snow-mode/

https://www.cars.com/articles/2022-23-rivian-r1t-ev-pickup-earns-top-safety-award-460559/

https://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/inno/stories/news/2022/12/14/rivian-expands-service-center-operations-west-sac.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/biden-tax-credits-aim-jolt-electric-delivery-truck-demand-2022-12-29/

https://twitter.com/rivianupdates/status/1609283723354071040

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Rivian released Q4’22 production figures:
Vehicles produced: 10,020
Full-year figures: 24,337 (target 25,000)

Targets were not met. RJ Scaringe stated that about 700 vehicles were at the factory still waiting for the final parts, so they didn’t miss by much.

Like many other EV companies, Rivian suffered heavily from supply chain issues during 2022. Scaringe stated that the Normal factory had been out of action because of them for as many as 20 full days last year, and on 50 different days, work had to be halted in the middle of the day.

So, if, if, and if… Let’s respect the result and not play the “what if” game. :smiling_face_with_tear:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-03/rivian-misses-goal-to-build-25-000-evs-despite-late-year-surge

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An article that reviews the vans Rivian built for Amazon, their impact on Amazon’s distribution, and more broadly about Amazon in general.

Apparently, only about a thousand vans are currently in use by Amazon, so 99,000 are yet to be built. This means that the vast majority of the vehicles produced last year were cars made for Rivian’s own customers. I personally suspected that Rivian would have produced more vans to reach their production targets more easily. It’s nice to see that they didn’t take that route after all.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/14/what-its-like-to-deliver-for-amazon-in-new-rivian-electric-vans.html