GM and Autocar made a deal. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this 80kW cell was also found in the front of the upcoming Honda CR-V.
“General Motors struck a deal with commercial vehicle manufacturer Autocar to use its hydrogen fuel-cell technology to power a range of heavy-duty work vehicles.”
“Autocar, based in Birmingham, Ala., is a 126-year-old manufacturer of Class 7 and 8 work vehicles, including garbage trucks, cement mixers, terminal tractors, and more.”
Surprising news. The company NamX has chosen a hydrogen internal combustion engine as the power source for its hydrogen-powered SUV model. A V8 engine, to be precise.
I wonder what it costs to make an internal combustion engine like that? A thousand? In any case, it immediately provides a price-competitive advantage over electric drivetrains. I’m interested to see which markets they target first. In Germany, hydrogen is still expensive, but in some sunny countries, its price will drop quite quickly. In those places, on the other hand, people don’t really show off with new cars… It’ll probably go bankrupt like other automotive startups.
We’ll see if the drivetrain brings any real-life competitive advantage.
Edit:
“NamX’s choice of a hydrogen combustion engine is a practical one. Hydrogen thermal vehicles do not have the main disadvantages of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCEVs), which require metals and rare earth elements for their production,” the manufacturer explains in its press release.
Among the arguments in favor of the hydrogen combustion engine, the brand specifically mentions “better stability” in production costs, but also the better durability of the technology. “While these (batteries/cells) require extremely pure hydrogen, which leads to the regular replacement of air and hydrogen filters, internal combustion can tolerate less pure and cheaper hydrogen,” the manufacturer justifies. This is a similar stance to the Indian giant Tata Motors, which presented the same arguments a few months ago.
“This industrial choice accelerates NAMX’s development and strengthens our ability to reach broader markets. Adopting ICE engines in the HUV is based on a clear logic: utilizing proven, reliable, and economical technology to open new horizons for sustainable mobility” – Faouzi ANNAJAH, founder and CEO of NAMX.
It remains to be seen how NamX intends to deploy its technology. Does the manufacturer intend to develop its own engine, or will it decide to join forces with a partner engine manufacturer? Given NamX’s desire to rely on existing expertise, the second hypothesis seems the most likely…
Were these PHEVs like a dying powertrain?
https://twitter.com/johnrhanger/status/1734189292161990969?t=PNQkKDa7r5btn8A0SfzkUQ&s=19
That bottom curve is a bit awkward; funny that it’s included anyway to remind us what is discussed most in this thread 
Lead-acid batteries were a problem back then (mass, usability). The internal combustion engine got an electric starter - start with a button. Refueling was easy.
That was probably the trigger.
In the beginning, the competition was actually toughest between steam cars and internal combustion engine cars. Internal combustion engines specifically won that competition through the electric starter.
Given the fluctuations in electricity prices, nothing can really be taken for granted. If electric transport becomes much more common, electricity demand will also grow, meaning it could be even more expensive in the future. In Europe, a normal price for even “household electricity” is around €0.40/kWh; at charging stations, it’s surely more as those investments need to be covered.
I have seen prices as high as €0.79/kWh at passenger car charging stations. If you stay within a 150km radius of home and don’t drive long distances, the benefit is obviously clear. If you have to charge here and there, the price is quite a mystery and you can’t really make a proper comparison. Another point is that fuel prices are much more predictable/less volatile. In logistics, it’s important to be able to price contracts correctly.
Local taxis are already moving away from electric cars, according to one driver. He just mentioned that he had to terminate his Kela (Social Insurance Institution) contract because taking a customer 250km away had taken 11 hours (round trip). With an internal combustion engine, the same trip takes about 6 hours. Productivity and income suffer a lot if the same task takes 5 hours longer, and often the customer needs to be at their destination at a specific time. I’ve noticed myself that Tesla taxis have decreased here. A year ago, you would see them every day.
At highway speeds, the battery has to be charged about every 3 hours, whereas you can drive a diesel for about 10 hours without refueling. The same applies to trucks. This doesn’t represent the whole field, of course, but it is a reality in professional transport that there are significantly more stops. On the electric truck side, mass is perhaps an even bigger problem, which I pointed out earlier in the thread.
This mainly relates to Kempower’s strategy, which is pivoting toward heavy-duty vehicle solutions.
A lot of development still needs to happen before the technology is practical for anything other than commuting. In America, only 9% of electric cars are the primary car; 91% are second or third cars.
The share price has come down a bit now, and I’ve been weighing whether to add to my position, but quite a few factors suggest waiting and seeing. There are many concrete uncertainties and risks that don’t depend on Kempower, but rather on everything from political decision-making to the development of electric vehicle technology.
There are certainly major challenges with electric cars, especially in remote areas. On the other hand, batteries improve every year, and it’s hard to see this trend stopping.
In the trucking industry, many transport contracts are long-term. Therefore, there needs to be predictability regarding the largest cost item, fuel. Electricity prices fluctuate daily with the pool, which is a major risk factor for transport operators who have to submit bids six months in advance. Diesel prices have always been very stable compared to the volatility of electricity prices.
The impact of transport electrification on consumption is not as big as you think.
“— In terms of energy, the country’s entire car fleet could be electrified as soon as tomorrow. It wouldn’t mean anything more than, for example, a return to Finland’s peak year of electricity consumption in 2007, which our power grid handled perfectly well, Paakkinen tells Moottori.”
Source: https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/vtt-n-asiantuntija-moottorille-nain-suomen-sahkoverkolle-kavisi-jos-kaikki-autot-muuttuisivat-yhdessa-yossa-sahkoautoiksi/8187440
In the first half of 2023, the average electricity price in the EU area was €0.289/kWh for households and €0.183/kWh for businesses.
Source: Electricity price statistics - Statistics Explained - Eurostat
99.2% of US motorists’ daily trips are less than 100 miles (161 km)
Source: https://evstatistics.com/2021/12/99-2-of-us-daily-trips-are-less-than-100-miles/
Since the fast-charging infrastructure is still insufficient for the time being, these kinds of edge cases can occur. Surely, in their day, horse-and-carriage men also laughed at automobile hippies, since hay and water were available at every cabin, while gasoline was only available at a few stations in Finland.
According to regulations, a truck driver must take at least a 45-minute break after 4.5 hours of driving, so a 10-hour range doesn’t add much value. Once the fast-charging infrastructure is sufficiently developed, truck drivers won’t have to wait unnecessarily for charging, but can instead do it during their breaks.
If desired, electricity prices can be hedged using derivatives. But I also see that hourly-priced spot electricity can provide opportunities for savings if charging can be timed for those periods of the day when electricity is cheap. For example, buses at a bus depot can be automatically fully charged during the cheapest hours of the night.
I didn’t mean the sufficiency of electricity, just the fact that when electric vehicle consumption is added on top of all other consumption, the price will likely rise. This is easy to notice with spot price electricity: there is enough electricity, but when consumption increases, the price rises along with it.
I believe that in commercial transport, decisions are made based on what is most sensible now, not on what will be the best solution in ten years. The point is that it becomes a chicken-and-egg question: will infrastructure be built if there is no demand, and demand won’t grow if there is no infrastructure.
You can’t assume that there’s a charger exactly at the 4.5-hour mark, and if you have to deviate from the route, it’s even more of a waste of time. I have truck drivers in my own family, and I’ve heard quite a few arguments about what isn’t practical in the technology. A layman thinks just like that—well, they stop anyway—but things aren’t always that simple. Another issue is the Road Traffic Act, where the maximum weight limit is reached quite quickly when the truck itself weighs 44 tons; then, you can’t carry as much cargo as with an internal combustion engine vehicle.
If you drive a truck across Europe, how do you hedge with an electricity price derivative?
If you’re driving a truck across Europe, you’ll likely be charging the truck at local charging operators’ charging points. Charging operators can hedge the price of the electricity they consume. Of course, it is also possible to use dynamic pricing at charging points. But if customers demand price predictability, it is likely in the charging operator’s interest to offer that predictability, especially since functioning electricity markets can provide it through derivatives.
To avoid just speculating, could you specify which operator has that price?
You’re still rambling about that 44-tonne truck. It refers to the gross combination weight. Here is a quote from Volvo’s website: ”The gross combination weight (GCW) of the Volvo FH, FM, and FMX Electric models is up to 44 tonnes.”
With those weights, they are mainly semi-trailer trucks.
There are currently also electric trucks over 70 tonnes on the road.
If, according to your claim, a taxi driver spends 5 hours charging on a 500km trip, then they definitely have the wrong electric car. I also find it a bit hard to believe that there is a place where there isn’t a single fast charger on a 250km route, where they could charge for 15 minutes if necessary so that the trip would be manageable with a large portion of electric cars.
An operator like Ionity.
That’s what I thought. Ionity has a per-minute rate, €0.79/min. Very cheap if the car can take in power even slightly more efficiently.