Gentlemen and ladies of leisure - Experiences?

In the “Your Goals with Investing” thread, there has been great discussion which has sometimes touched upon what life is like when one has succeeded well enough to be able to say they are “financially free.”

I recently left my day job as my portfolio, after a couple of decades of startup entrepreneurship, is sufficient to sustain me. Now it would be nice to hear experiences from those forum members who are financially independent? What was it like to leave work? How has that transition gone? Where have you found meaning in life outside the office, and did you miss the adrenaline or the team? Do you now do investing as your “main job,” and what would you advise the rest of us based on your experiences? Were there any surprises? Are there any mistakes or things that would be good to be aware of if things work out as always hoped?

96 Likes

@VPKe Come on, throw your updated news into the thread :blush::slightly_smiling_face:

9 Likes

For me, working life was, from the very beginning, just an interim stage to achieve the ultimate goal: freedom. Partially, this was because I never figured out what I would be genuinely excited to do for work, and partially because I have so many interests that I never get bored.

The original plan was to retire already in my thirties, and by the end of my studies, that was quite a realistic goal. Life, however, decided to apply the brakes a bit, and I stayed home to care for my children for three years at the beginning of my career. There were no financial worries or time management issues. Two small girls (now adults) took care of that. This move delayed my retirement by ten years. My original portfolio was also reset at the same time. A practical example of the importance of time in investing. Start early, but it’s never too late.

Let’s jump to the present. This autumn marks seven years of being a free spirit. When I left work, my youngest daughter was one year old and my son was four, so time management issues were once again resolved. In fact, time was more of a shortage, especially my own time.
From my working life, I don’t particularly miss daily human contact. I could visit once a month, give a lecture on how things should be done, and be a remote support for the rest of the time. But I don’t think former or future employers would be interested in such an arrangement.

My days are now filled with playing hockey, digging in the garden, turning stones, reading, and simply running everyday life. I should also make time to use my Museum Card.
I could spend as much time on investing as I have, if I took it really seriously. I have tried to minimize everything possible on that front. There’s already too much information, which is more distracting than helpful. I don’t participate much in discussions, as there seem to be enough conversationalists without me, and there’s no need to show off (nor do I really have anything to add).

Sometimes, the thought creeps into my mind whether I should be some kind of useful and productive citizen. On the other hand, I consume minimally, so why should I produce anything? And there are enough workers in the world to produce on my behalf. Despite all the idleness, I generate a commendable amount of tax euros.

The current situation is pretty much what I originally aimed for. Some kind of intellectual challenges would be welcome. Fortunately, the last 2-3 years have been so active in the investment markets that I haven’t been able to get too comfortable. My hobby subtly became a profession. Although I still don’t consider myself a professional investor. A talented amateur, perhaps.

I don’t recommend a complete exit from working life for everyone. It has its pitfalls. I’ve always been able to thrive with a limited amount of human contact. However, it’s wise to keep some mandatory social activity in your schedule. Luckily, leaving home is still easy.

Today is game day again. I once considered becoming a professional ice hockey player in elementary school. However, the nearest ice rink was 180km from home. I doubted my family would agree to move, so I decided to focus on school. Which, in hindsight, was a good decision. I wouldn’t have become a professional. I shy away from competition in everything, so informal pick-up hockey works perfectly. Inside the rink, the worries of the world don’t bother me, unless it’s a bad game day, and usually it’s not.

214 Likes

May I ask if you became financially independent entirely through self-made investments/savings, or if there’s an exit or similar event in the background? :slight_smile:

3 Likes

It wasn’t an exit in the sense that money would have moved in my direction. I had to pay a bit to get out. I left with just my portfolio (300,000). Half a million was the goal, but work life and the stock market were nothing but uphill battles, so I decided to quit entirely.

40 Likes

I’ve posted this before, but in a bad moment, I’m recalling Ismo’s story.

These “free baron” lifestyles are very subjective when it comes to what euro amount is enough for each person.

In Ismo’s words: in good years, you build a buffer that then carries you over the bumps :slightly_smiling_face: Everything will work out and time will heal.

Leaving work is a difficult hurdle, mentally. I’m not at peace with it myself yet, but it might be that I just can’t go back to “proper” jobs to be told what to do by anyone. And I’ve seen far too many co-operation negotiations (YT) too.

It’s great to see, by the way, how the coming years will take forum members forward and what new pleasant stories we will hear​:flexed_biceps:

45 Likes

Did I understand correctly that you’re becoming a freeman with a 300K portfolio? You probably don’t live in a high cost of living area, like the Helsinki metropolitan area? I have that much put together here too, but the freeman goal in my own plans would need almost another zero to be realistic.

24 Likes

300 was 7 years ago. There have been a couple of good years in between, so now it’s something else. I didn’t have to touch the portfolio capital right away, as I prepared for the exit by selling an investment apartment and such. In between, I moved from Turku to Vantaa and bought a stone house. It’s enough, even though this year has made a small dent.

My example is a prime example, or rather a cautionary tale, of what risk levels one should consider when dreaming of financial independence. Starting from the fact that I didn’t maximize my education level and thereby enable a stronger career. However, I calculated that the level was sufficient in terms of both schooling and portfolio size. If everything hadn’t gone perfectly, there would still be work for someone willing to do it. It wasn’t worth telling anyone about these plans in advance. When I publicly outlined making a living with a half-million portfolio, there were plenty of people scoffing. There still are, but for different reasons.

The next milestone is €10M. Then I’ll probably get on TV instead of the radio, if such a thing still exists then. While waiting for that, I’ll keep busy and try to keep my body and mind active.

82 Likes

Thanks for sharing your story. Was your income built on dividends or on profits from buying and selling stocks?

This story has been circulating online for almost two years now. Everything can be found under my own name across social media.
Dividends do not play a significant role in terms of cash flow or strategy.
Approximately half of the year’s returns come from dividends, and the rest from sales. I try to outline the cash flow with a year’s accuracy so that I don’t have to sell anything by force, even if there’s a bad year. It’s unlikely we’ll have a worse year than the past one for a while.

27 Likes

And if you can count on dividends, then the daily prices don’t really matter. Many criticize what the size of the capital should be, but what one needs to live on is very subjective. And if you already have everything you need, then you might not even need such large incomes.

1 Like

How have you told your loved ones about your situation? What thoughts has it brought up?

At first, of course, I didn’t tell anyone anything at all.
Back in the day (around 15 years ago), I declared, “I will never support myself with work.” The audience consisted of my father, mother, eldest sister with her boyfriend, and his parents.
I had to explain a bit that I meant working my butt off from 8 to 4. White-collar jobs were less common in my immediate family’s experience, so I didn’t know about any other kind of work than reluctant drudgery.

I studied enough to get a general education in economics and some formal certifications of my competence (Bachelor of Business Administration in Financial Management).
Through a few twists and turns, I even ended up as a CEO. A bit reluctantly, but I had no choice.

I accumulated a real career of a little over a decade when my portfolio began to signal that leaving working life was possible. If not immediately, then in the foreseeable future.
At that point, my wife, for example, didn’t know much about the size of the portfolio. My entire salary could be put into consumption, and the portfolio’s capital didn’t need to be increased; it lived its own life. This continued for a few years.

Towards the end of my career, I told my wife that I was running out of gas, but I could support the family for a few years under all circumstances, even if I quit my job. My wife was a student at that stage and didn’t earn much, though she didn’t spend unnecessarily either. In addition to all other blessings, I have been blessed with a good spouse.

A couple of years after quitting work, I lived off savings (selling an investment apartment, etc.). The portfolio lived its own life, and at €400,000, I showed the amount to my wife. I was a bit nervous beforehand because we had lived quite frugally (renting), and her reaction could have been bitter. However, she said, “You seem to know what you’re doing, so keep it up. She’s going to work.”

Two years after this, the portfolio crossed the million-euro mark. I warned relatives in advance before the matter became public. The reception was mostly positive, except for my mother-in-law, who was a bit ambivalent. But mothers-in-law are mothers-in-law.
There wasn’t much surprise (at least not to my ears) from any direction. I’ve probably always been considered a bit odd, and a million-euro portfolio wasn’t a huge surprise in the end. And the amount of money doesn’t show in our daily lives in any way, and I especially have to give my wife credit for not letting money affect her in any way.

My mother still doesn’t understand how I make a living. “You’ve been unemployed for so many years.” She still saves her savings for her children. At some point before the million, I told her the account balance, and my mother couldn’t comprehend the sum. A few years ago, I advised her to put her savings into a fund. Then, when she went to the bank, she wondered, “How can she have so much money in her account?” (in the fund). I just said I do this for a living. Try to imagine the sums I deal with?

We have spoken about money with our children very sparingly. Everyone seems to have inherited their father’s and mother’s temperament. As stingy as the devil. We don’t make a big deal out of it.
Our children’s friends, especially my son’s, have pointed out that we have a hundred square meters more space than they do and both parents live at the same address. And all the children have slightly too new iPhones (recycled from parents or otherwise used).

Occasionally, the children ask questions like, “Dad, what do you actually do for work?” or “Have you ever done real work?” When faced with these questions, I try to wiggle my way out and explain in a way they can understand based on their age. The questions are good in themselves because I also have to think about what my work actually was?

My father never got to see my adult endeavors. He probably wouldn’t have understood or approved of all my actions. Still, I try to do everything in a style that brings a smile to his face. I owe him a lot.

210 Likes

Thanks, VPKe, for sharing your background; I’ve been following along, I don’t remember how long, but probably almost from the beginning when you went public with it.

Everyone’s story is unique, and no one’s success guarantees another’s, nor the other way around, of course, but it does, or at least should, give everyone who is wondering how much is enough, when is the right time, etc., something to think about. Life is for living; everyone should strive to make it their own, to the best of their ability.

22 Likes

It must also be mentioned that very few people in my inner circle (or anywhere else) ask for investment advice. Many would need it, though, considering how greedy they are for money. They prefer to dream of winning the lottery or some other stroke of luck. I guess they’ve noticed that investing, and money matters in general, are deadly boring. Mostly waiting and silence. A bit like fishing.

74 Likes

Quote

Actually, quite a good comparison. Today, while fishing, exceptionally from the shore, I chatted with a few passers-by about the sport. The day was very challenging; there were fish, but I really had to dig into my tackle box for all sorts of tricks accumulated over nearly 40 years to get results. Fast retrieve with a heavy jig head, or thumping the bottom, slow hovering with a light jig head and a thicker fluorocarbon leader, varying dropshot, cheburashka (Чебурашка), live bait, traditional worm, etc. Many methods were also left unused because they weren’t suitable for the situation. However, the most essential thing was that the bait was in the water, and in the end, I got enough fish for dinner.

Fishing trips often begin in the company of a parent or grandparent, learning the ropes. Someone gets a little excited, for someone it becomes a significant part of their life, someone doesn’t get excited at all, but all the same, the experience has been gained. Why couldn’t this also be the case with investing? To some extent, it probably is, but also in the bigger picture.

When you have enough meters behind you and fish caught, catching a single fish is no longer so significant; instead, you notice the overall picture more broadly. Every now and then, a more significant catch comes along.

Edit: someone remarked during the day that I was patiently persistent in fishing. In the future, I’ll be able to use investing as a comparison in this regard. I try to avoid quick games in both; in fishing, it’s not an option at all, so from that perspective, more could be drawn into the realm of investing.

It could be interesting to spend a day in the same boat with an experienced, seasoned investor who, however, hasn’t caught the fishing bug.

13 Likes

I started with a fishing rod without a worm. Over time, we progressed to net fishing from a rowboat. And nowadays, we use a mid-sized ocean vessel for trawling.
I’m looking for salmon, but sometimes I have to settle for roach.

17 Likes

VPK has now quite openly shared their own numbers, but do others dare to say with what amounts they have become investors? And if there are even any real ones here. It’s typical, of course, to hang in there with some companies or to have left the most profitable scraps from your own company, which brings in additional income on top of investments, and manage it part-time. Let’s not criticize if you don’t have a million, but on the contrary, praise those who have dared to make moves with a smaller portfolio.

7 Likes

I started in 2006, began day trading with 50k€, and now have a seven-figure portfolio and 5 apartments acquired with the profits. I haven’t done anything else since then.

71 Likes

Veterans, where can I find inspiration and peer support to start living off my portfolio if my own spreadsheets are starting to show that it should be more than enough?

10 Likes