Exactly. These are certainly challenging for analysts. My view of the company changed quite a bit when I talked to a doctor I know about it.
3 Likes
And by all means, share with us what your acquaintance thought!
2 Likes
And now we must remember that no one is alone on the device manufacturing side either. Devices are coming from Asia like crazy! Huawei is a good example, good quality for cheapâŠ
2 Likes
Iâd be interested in that too.
1 Like
My main point was that itâs a bit hard to see such a great need for a handheld device. Fundi are mainly imaged by 1. opticians in âcomprehensive eye exams,â who then, if they see something, advise going to an ophthalmologist, and 2. ophthalmologists. Itâs not a problem for an ophthalmologist to have an even larger device in the room. Nor, apparently, for an optician, as these are currently in use.
Image quality is the most essential thing. Of course, if an equally good image could be obtained, a cheaper device would be better, but in practice, a fixed device where the head or hand doesnât shake probably gives a better image. In addition, e.g., Terveysportti states that âA wide field of view (60° vs. 45°) improves the detection of neovascularization.â Optomedâs device seems to image at a 50° angle. With fixed devices, itâs possible to image up to 200° at once, which speeds up imaging a bit, but doesnât seem very significant. Naturally, pupillary dilation is also needed for these. The image in Verneriâs video was not very diagnostically useful, but overexposed. It was probably loosely against the eye from below. 
Currently, for example, smaller health centers do not own devices for fundus imaging; instead, an imager visits them infrequently. Imaging is typically not acute in any way, which is why a visiting imager can visit with the device, e.g., once a month or less often. Perhaps an affordable device would be quite okay for this, but the image quality should be equally good, as these images are sent for interpretation and new ones are not taken. But since the matter is not acute, there is nothing wrong with the current system either.
So this is probably not quite a Revenio icare, as icare makes a meter that looks like a medieval torture device redundant and practically created the possibility to measure childrenâs eye pressures as well.
The AI side is separate and seems quite good, but I understood that this part has at least been purchased from Retinalyze. If this situation has not changed, one could imagine the added value flowing a bit past the company.
Disclaimer: This is from a general practitioner, not an ophthalmologist, and some of the things are also my Google searches, so it may contain incorrect information. 
32 Likes
I was thinking about the future potential of a device that a nurse would pull out of their pocket, unable to analyze anything themselves, but the device would do the analysis and give an assessment. A picture or video could, for example, be processed by computer software. But quality and reliability would determine its viability, plus of course the price, if it were to end up with a nurse. If software does the analysis, I donât understand why an optician should be in any role in between. It would go straight to a doctor for further processing, who could then do more detailed examinations, etc., depending on the reliability of the device.
However, thereâs probably still a long way to go before this happens.
2 Likes
A âtechnicalâ note, the overexposure was partly due to the phoneâs camera and appeared in the video, not in the ârealâ world in the Optomed camera. 
11 Likes
Edit:
Revenion pÀÀtuote on Icare silmÀnpainemittari, jonka lisÀksi heille on tullut yritysoston kautta tuotevalikoimaan myös perinteinen pöytÀmallin silmÀnpohjakamera. Siten Optomed on myös pieneltÀ osin Revenion kilpailija, joskin Revenio on aika pieni toimija perinteisillÀ silmÀnpohjakameramarkkinoilla.
4 Likes
âOptomed is also a minor competitor to Revenio, though Revenio is quite a small player in the traditional fundus camera market.â
Optomedâs revenue in 2018 was 12.7M and Center Vueâs was 18.6M
It is at least larger in volume than Optomed.
However, are handheld cameras part of the âtraditional fundus camera marketâ?
3 Likes
https://www.inderes.fi/fi/tapahtuma/optomed-helsinki-torstaina-2811-klo-1630-1930
Will we be able to enjoy the video stream again? @Yu_Gong
3 Likes
The Tuol Symposion space has tech set up by Inderesâ webcast guys 
Fully optimized for webcasts 
But of course, lots of people can fit on-site too.
6 Likes
That filled up fast. I didnât make it even though I tried less than 2 hours after the email came.
3 Likes
Yeah, that was a popular event. It closed in about an hour. Luckily thereâll be a live webcast and a recording.
5 Likes
Before getting too excited about an IPO, itâs worth considering, for example, why Optomedâs growth hasnât been explosive so far, if the device is genuinely revolutionary. Iâve tried the device, both the first Smartscope version and the latest Aurora, and the basic problem remains â usability is poor. Taking a high-quality image is difficult, and a poor image has no diagnostic value. Secondly, the deviceâs screen is so small that no assessment can be made without a separate, larger parallel display (so the overall package isnât exactly pocket-sized). The AI connection might be the âbig opportunityâ here, but the device itself needs to be made such that a relatively infrequent user like a primary care nurse or doctor could use it easily and reliably (otherwise it will go unused).
The comparison to Revenio doesnât quite fit. The iCare, which is still Revenioâs core product, is a relatively inexpensive device, but its use is expensive. The high price (and margin) of the sensor tips drives profits, even if the hardware is 10 years old. Optomed doesnât have this kind of recurring sales. On the software side, thereâs already a lot of pressure on license fees.
19 Likes
Hey, great text, thanks for it! Could you elaborate a bit on the situations in which youâve been able to try out the devices, and do you generally have expertise related to the subject/field?
I assume, based on the text, that youâre not a customer struggling with eye problems, but rather more on the other side of the table?
2 Likes
You guessed correctly that I work on âthe other side of the tableâ. My experience with using devices comes from demonstrations/fairs. A portable device has its advantages if mobile screening is being done, but I personally donât consider this advantage so great that, as a professional, I would forgive deficiencies in features â and in this comparison, those handheld cameras are far from current desktop models, which are practically automatic: they find the best imaging spot, autofocus focuses, and a camera robot takes the picture. AI analytics is now rapidly being brought in not only as an ancillary service but also directly into devices. Therefore, relying on its added value commercially is, in my opinion, risky.
Somewhere in this thread, there might have already been a mention that itâs no problem for, for example, a health center or a smaller health kiosk to use a stable desktop device. Whatâs essential for screening is that cameras are placed in locations where people already go (health centers, optical shops, pharmacies, etc.). I will not flag this.
8 Likes
Good comments. AI is something that can be connected to any device in the future. It requires a lot of data, so getting that data into use is a significant factor in its development. I believe that current device manufacturers are not out of the loop on this matter.
1 Like
Is there any information on device prices? How much do the desktop model and the Optomed portable cost?
1 Like
Optomed devices: their older device is about 6000e and the newer one is about 8000e. I Googled desktop models from Sky-optic and they seem to be around 2500e-14000e⊠I canât say anything about the comparability of their features.
1 Like
In those, image quality is probably the most important. Technology is constantly evolving, and Optomedâs device likely benefits from its portability and the ability to take images regardless of location. Itâs a bit like having a desktop computer and a mobile phone. You can surf the internet with both, but the portable model requires a specific location. The prospectus will tell you more, and what the subscription price is. Then decisions can be made, if shares are even available from the offering.
3 Likes