Metso - Pioneer in aggregate processing

I agree. But MetsoOutotec will be much more susceptible to the cycles and trends of the mining industry than the current Metso. The timing for MetsoOutotec’s formation could be challenging. Neles, which will be spun off from Metso, will be much more stable.

I’ll have to do some calculations tomorrow to see if there’s any sense in buying Outotec, even though the price seems to have dropped a lot. Metso is still expensive in my opinion, but it might still be a more sensible purchase, considering it still includes the Neles share.

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In my opinion, it’s worth envisioning the situation 2-5 years from now. Even if the outlook for the mining industry isn’t the best right now, that will change. The need for raw materials won’t decrease – quite the opposite. Mineral/metal discoveries haven’t been as “rich,” so we’ll have to work with less optimal mines, and demand is also growing due to, for example, the battery industry – so materials will be consumed, and Outotec’s technological expertise will be needed when new mines open.
I just assume that, due to the situation in China, the start of the year won’t be the most positive at all. The merger will also consume resources, which will certainly be reflected in the results.

But at the same time, Outotec will become less sensitive to the mining industry’s cycles. :+1:

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So I bought at 5.2€ a week or two after the merger announcement, when the fastest ones cashed in quick profits, and sold the shares a little after the turn of the year when the whole market seemed to be in an euphoric state. Maybe you can’t call it a trade when the shares were in the portfolio for months, but still :slight_smile: The previous purchase before this was at 3.7€ and I sold in the summer (with a good profit, but I’m not going to guess percentages now as I don’t remember) unfortunately a couple of days before the merger announcement. If it drops sharply tomorrow, I’ll jump back in before the earnings release :sunglasses:

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Uh… which Outotec?

Do you mean the current Outotec’s share in the upcoming MetsoOutotec and that Outotec’s current businesses are better off in MetsoOutotec? The comparison is a bit strange, as it will soon be one and the same company, but if you consider Outotec’s current businesses as part of the future company → I agree.

Oh, I must have been running a fever when I wrote that sentence, everything got mixed up. My apologies. I can’t even figure out what the original thought was now :sweat_smile:

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I’m going to share some of my views on Outotec from a trading perspective, as their merger is nearing completion.

The negative share price reaction to Outotec has been swift, with about €220 million evaporating from its value in a couple of weeks. There’s likely no single clear reason for the decline. The virus, potential delays in investment decisions, and a slowdown in the Chinese economy are all presumed to have an impact. However, I’m not worried about the virus or its spread, but rather, for example, about China’s economic growth prospects in the longer term and the stalling of Outotec’s and the industry’s nascent longer-term upward trend. The market outlook in the earnings release will therefore be interesting.

I would estimate that as soon as the number of suspected virus cases stabilizes and even begins to decline slightly, share prices will start to make clear corrective moves. It’s difficult to estimate the timing, but mass sentiment will likely shift very quickly as news becomes more hopeful, which is completely understandable. Sensationalist reporting and fear-mongering have also been important for controlling the spread of the virus. Of course, the official figures reported are not entirely accurate, but they can be used to assess the situation and contextualize the virus’s true severity. The number of recoveries has also started to rise, from which one can deduce the duration of recovery and, in a way, guess the length of the market disruption caused by the virus. Ultimately, it’s unfortunate that as part of my trading strategy, I have to utilize graphs of sick and deceased Chinese individuals.

The market has not fully come to an agreement on the market values of Outotec, Metso, and Neles. Numerous larger industrial mergers in previous years suggest that the share price of the divested Neles would be higher than the current price (now €10.20/share) after the merger, also benefiting the smaller divested company. Neles’ share price has fluctuated between approximately €8.70 and €14.00/share since the merger news in the summer, reaching a low of about 25.4% and a high of a whopping 38.9% of Metso’s market value. Initially, the pricing error was clearest at nearly 39%, but after the release of Metso/Neles figures, the percentage range has leveled out to approximately 25.4-34.2%, as Neles’ value could be calculated more accurately in light of the numbers. Prices have been calculated assuming that the market has always priced Outotec correctly at the end of the day. Everyone can calculate and guess Neles’ correct price if they wish, which today is 31.50% of Metso’s price. Inderes’ report provides additional figures that supported my own calculations. If the situation remains stable, it appears that in this equation 1+1+1 is greater than 3, so owning Metso at the time of the merger could also be profitable.

What has made the situation interesting is that Metso’s share price increase has always supported Outotec as well and has so far prevented larger drops. The price increases have provided justified buying opportunities, and until now, they have almost without exception favored buying Outotec. A large drop in Metso’s share price is certainly possible, and it could quickly reverse the situation, as Neles might then become cheap. For Outotec, I have calculated a moving support level, below which would likely require a broader market collapse, a clear weakening of Metso’s results and a share price dip, a broader stalling of the industry’s market outlook and/or order book, or the cancellation of the merger. The technical support level, on the other hand, hovers around 5.00-5.08, but with low trading volume, a momentary slip below it can easily occur. When making Outotec purchases, I assess the Risk to Reward, and so far, it has been very good at these price levels. The Hit Rate for Outotec’s stock has also been excellent, and if my current Outotec buying program fails, I would only drop to my target level of 80%, so I believe my trade is worth the risk.

Most cyclical stocks are shorted by some percentage and can be part of a hedge strategy, so paying too much attention to them ultimately messes up one’s own investment strategy. Of course, short changes need to be monitored and utilized where possible. It is also difficult to guess what strategy individual short positions are built upon. The latest short was recorded on January 24, 2020, is 1.61% in size, and opened around €6.00.

Apologies for the overly long message, any obvious statements, and bringing the virus into this thread. I added the second to last batch of Outotec @5.152.

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Thanks for the good message. This has been a bit difficult for me personally, as my purchases are currently down 9.5%. In hindsight, it’s easy to say I should have sold earlier. Now I don’t really want to sell anymore, but I don’t know if the decline will just continue.

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I would see the past few days’ decline as a pure China reaction. When the trade war was at its hottest, Outotec reacted similarly to everything that affected China. If the Chinese stock market recovers slightly from yesterday’s “three-somersault-with-a-twist neck-breaker” jump deep down, I would suspect that Outotec will also start to recover accordingly. The stock seems to be a sensitive indicator of raw material demand and prices…

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Thank you for your extensive, informative, and also humane response @Thiebault. Over the weekend, I listened to Metso’s Q3 webcast and earlier to webcasts discussing the Outotec & Metso merger. I find the management very convincing and am now following Metso particularly closely.

My plan is to make long-term investments, so it would be great to be involved in both “Metsotec” and Neles, and follow the companies’ lifecycles as an “owner.”

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I’m currently in the red with Outotec, just under -7% @rahpak, and I’m not worried at all. I’m calmly waiting to see how things go in China. If Outotec drops close to 5 euros, I’ll buy more. If Metso drops close to 30 euros, I’ll buy Metso. I don’t day trade or constantly monitor the screen, so it might be a matter of luck if I get either. Unfortunately, I can’t place buy limit orders for Finnish stocks through my UK broker that could track the market for me.

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And just as I suspected… since China bounced back, Outotec is following suit and jumping nicely this morning. The weekly uptrend is also safe :slight_smile:

A little balm for the wounds, as yesterday I sold some of my QT (which, of course, rocketed again) and that money happened to go into Outotec, whose slide I saw as a strong China reaction. So, at least for today so far, the returns are coming in at the same pace, just the color of the stock changed.

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I approach technical analysis with healthy skepticism, but I still use it in my investment/trading decisions. My learning is still in its early stages, and I’m testing different techniques and theories for various stocks. Sometimes, the principle in TA is like a cult: it works when enough people believe in it and find support in it. However, it can easily fail when the idea loses its foundation, too many people start questioning it, and they quickly want out. In Outotec, as in other less liquid stocks, the problem is precisely volume. A single trader can influence the price and drop the support level, from which a new support level would form. My first shaky support level broke when Outotec came through the Parallel Channel. The virus panic hit, and the markets became too unstable for many within a week.

I would say that in technical analysis, it’s best to keep things simple, and the 5.08 support level is likely mutually agreed upon, but I’m not yet setting a stop loss around it, even if it breaks quickly. Until the fundamentals and a longer uptrend haven’t clearly changed, I prefer to buy at the point where others are setting stop losses. Outotec is also a peculiar stock; you feel like buying and selling it at the same time. In recent days, I’ve found it a bit more pleasant to buy. The stock might not be the best option for people who follow their portfolio daily and get stressed by large daily drops. One has had to get used to the price fluctuations with this one.

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OP:s pre-comment on Metso and Outotec has arrived. Outotec’s target price remains at €6.5. According to OP’s analysis, Metso’s target price would be €38, of which Metso’s share would be €29 and Neles €9.
EV/EBIT would be 11x for Metso Outotec and 13x for Flow Control.

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Does anyone know more specifically about the significance of the Chinese market for Outotec and thus the significance of China’s slump for this year’s results?

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China consumes a lot of raw materials. Outotec makes equipment for producing raw materials. Does the demand for raw materials drop when China’s economy declines, thus decreasing the enthusiasm to invest in raw material production? Or am I completely off track?

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Outotec, 2018 Financial Statement and Board of Directors’ Report, p.16

“Potential uncertainties in the global economy, especially the outlook for the Chinese economy, may affect the demand and prices of metals, as well as Outotec’s business and financial position.”

Uncertainty generally delays larger projects, and risks always exist. The merger will likely level out the significance of project orders, which have played a significant role for Outotec. Growing service business will bring stability. In my opinion, the merger is an excellent solution.

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Yesterday, the market priced Neles at approximately €11.60/share about an hour before the stock exchange closed, and Neles’ daily price increase briefly reached +9.4% relative to Metso’s and Outotec’s share prices (33.45% of Metso’s value). Outotec continued to cheapen relative to Metso (and Neles), and investors have not fully internalized that the companies are already one and the same. Those who invest in Neles (and Metso) at this stage provide Outotec’s stock price with good protection against declines and create recurring trading opportunities. Due to regularly recurring illogicality, buying Metso still feels too expensive, and Outotec looks very attractive with low, limited risk. The markets appear quite inefficient here, or Neles is quite a gem.

Market outlook comments in the upcoming earnings releases will likely be less grim than they would have been a week ago. My own investment in Outotec is now sufficient.

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9 AM

Metso is still going strong, as it has been, but Outotec’s share in the upcoming MetsoOutotec seems difficult to interpret, at least for Kauppalehti.

image

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Traditional Kauppalehti (Finnish financial newspaper) reporting. The figures are pretty much all in line with consensus, from what I quickly gathered by glancing at the report.

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