China's human rights violations and aggressions

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Tehdään tämä ketju eeppisen Venäjän aggressiot ketjun seuraksi. Venäjä ketjun perustamisesta meni kuukausi kun Ukrainassa alkoi paukkua. Toivottavasti tämä ei ole enne. Euroopan turvallisuustilanne ja Venäjän aggressiot (Osa 1) - Sijoittaminen - Inderes forum

Let’s make this thread a follow-up to the epic Russia’s Aggressions thread. A month passed from the establishment of the Russia thread until things started to explode in Ukraine. Hopefully, this is not an omen. Euroopan turvallisuustilanne ja Venäjän aggressiot (Osa 1) - Sijoittaminen - Inderes forum

Kiina on maailman toiseksi suurin talous. Samalla se on tunnettu lukuisista ihmisoikeusloukkauksista omia kansalaisia ja vähemmistöjään kohtaan, esim. uiguurit. Lisäksi imperialistinen Kiina ahdistelee pienempiä naapureitaan Etelä-Kiinan merellä. Kiinan aluevaatimukset Etelä-Kiinan merellä ovat varsin mielenkiintoisia. Samalla logiikalla Suomi voisi vaatia, että koko Itämeri Tanskan salmiin asti kuuluu Suomelle.

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China is the world’s second-largest economy. At the same time, it is known for numerous human rights violations against its own citizens and minorities, e.g., the Uyghurs. In addition, imperialist China harasses its smaller neighbors in the South China Sea. China’s territorial claims in the South China Sea are quite interesting. By the same logic, Finland could demand that the entire Baltic Sea up to the Danish straits belongs to Finland.

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Jos Venäjä on pähkinänkuoressa mafian johtama bensa-asema jolla on ydinaseita, on Kiina mafian johtama tehdas jolla on ydinaseita. Venäjällä mafia on Putinin kaverit. Kiinassa mafia on kommunistinen puolue. Kommunismin alkuperäisestä ideasta ei Kiinassa ole jäljellä muuta kuin puolue. Maa on ultra-kapitalistinen, mutta sillä erityispiirteellä, että puolue voi aina laittaa kenet tahansa linnaan ja varastaa omaisuutesi. Jack Ma julkisesti kritisoi Kiinan pankkijärjestelmää (ei siis edes puoluetta) ja kävi vähän uudelleen koulutuksessa.

If Russia, in a nutshell, is a mafia-led gas station with nuclear weapons, then China is a mafia-led factory with nuclear weapons. In Russia, the mafia is Putin’s cronies. In China, the mafia is the Communist Party. Of the original idea of communism, nothing remains in China but the party. The country is ultra-capitalist, but with the special characteristic that the party can always put anyone in prison and steal their property. Jack Ma publicly criticized China’s banking system (not even the party) and went through some “re-education.”

Kiinaan kuten muihinkin diktatuureihin kuulluu historian uudelleen kirjoittaminen sopivaan muotoon. Venäjällä Stalin on brändätty ihan hyväksi jätkäksi. Kiinassa Mao on samassa asemassa vaikka kuten Stalin tapatti miljoonia. Maon osalta virheet tunnustaa virallinenkin Kiina, mutta ne mainitaan nopeasti sivulauseessa eikä niistä kannata liikaa huudella. Sen sijaan todelliset kiinalaiset sankarit kuten tank man on hävitetty maan historiasta.
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Rewriting history into a suitable form is characteristic of China, as it is of other dictatorships. In Russia, Stalin has been branded as a pretty good guy. In China, Mao is in the same position, even though, like Stalin, he killed millions. Regarding Mao, even official China acknowledges mistakes, but they are mentioned quickly in a subordinate clause, and it’s not advisable to talk too much about them. Instead, true Chinese heroes like the Tank Man have been erased from the country’s history.
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Honk Kongin osalta Kiinan sitoutui yksi maa kaksi järjestelmää malliin, missä Hong Kong olisi vapaa osin länsimaistyyppinen demokratia. Sopimuksen mukaan sitä piti jatkua 50 vuotta siitä kun Brittien hallinto poistui saarelta vuonna 1997 eli vuoteen 2047. Mutta kuten Hong Kongin tapahtumat osoittavat sopimukset Kiinan kanssa on yhtä arvokkaita kuin Venäjän kanssa eli kelpaavat lähinnä paskapaperiksi.

Regarding Hong Kong, China committed to the “one country, two systems” model, where Hong Kong would be a free, partly Western-style democracy. According to the agreement, it was supposed to continue for 50 years from when British rule left the island in 1997, i.e., until 2047. But as the events in Hong Kong show, agreements with China are as valuable as those with Russia, meaning they are only good for toilet paper.

Kiina myös kontrolloi omia kansalaisiaan lännessä kiristämällä heitä kotimaassa asuvien sukulaisten avulla. Lisäksi länteen on perustettu tai yritetty perustaa Kiinan omia salaisia poliisiasemia omien kansalaisten kontrolloimisen helpottamiseksi. Alla olevassa jutussa mainittiin että 12:ssa länsimaassa oli tutkimusta Kiinan salaisista poliisiasemista.

Suomessa oli tuore tapaus, kun ministerin avustajaksi ei päässyt henkilö jolla oli kiinalainen puoliso. IL:n tiedot: Riikka Purran erityisavustajan nimitys kaatui Supon turvallisuusselvitykseen – Syynä avopuolison Kiina-tausta

China also controls its own citizens in the West by blackmailing them through relatives living in their home country. In addition, China’s own secret police stations have been established or attempted to be established in the West to facilitate the control of its own citizens. The article below mentioned that 12 Western countries were investigating China’s secret police stations.

In Finland, there was a recent case where a person with a Chinese spouse could not become a minister’s assistant. IL:n tiedot: Riikka Purran erityisavustajan nimitys kaatui Supon turvallisuusselvitykseen – Syynä avopuolison Kiina-tausta

Ukrainan sota ja Kiinan pullistelut on saanut kauko-idän riitaisat kumppanit Japanin ja Etelä-Korean ymmärtämään, että vaikka toisen maailmansodan takaa on hampaan kolossa kannattaa toimia yhdessä Yhdysvaltojen avulla Kiinaa vastaan.

The war in Ukraine and China’s flexing have made the contentious partners in the Far East, Japan and South Korea, understand that even if there’s a lingering grudge from World War II, it’s worth working together with the help of the United States against China.

Kiina kasvattaa valtaansa myös jakamalla lainoja ja tukemalla diktaattoreita muissa maissa: Debt trap diplomacy. Suomessakin oli pitkään vireillä Tallinna-Helsinki tunneli joka olisi tehty Kiinalaisella rahalla.

China also increases its power by distributing loans and supporting dictators in other countries: Debt trap diplomacy. In Finland, the Tallinn-Helsinki tunnel, which would have been built with Chinese money, was long in the works.

No niin nyt saa riittää, vaikka en päässyt edes vielä Taiwaniin asti.
Alright, that’s enough for now, even though I didn’t even get to Taiwan yet.

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Vietnam and the United States are drawing closer. Biden is going to Vietnam next week. Large American companies are moving manufacturing there.

I wonder if China will realize that aggression doesn’t pay before it’s too late. All the jobs moving to Vietnam are taken away from China, which is already struggling with youth unemployment and challenges in the real estate sector.

The establishment of a “comprehensive strategic partnership” will give the United States a diplomatic status that Vietnam has so far reserved for only a handful of other countries: China, Russia, India and South Korea.

We have come a long way since the Vietnam War, where China and Russia aided Vietnam against the United States.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/09/01/vietnam-biden-partnership-china/

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PYN Elite -rahasto
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China is busily pouring big money into a new administrative center in Egypt, and Rosatom is building a nuclear power plant.

The primary financier of the grandiose new city is China, promoting its Belt and Road Initiative.

Somehow those detached, colossal multi-billion-dollar structures in the middle of nowhere give me the chills. Starting from things like the Sochi Olympics. It shows how arbitrary the use of money can be and how it can be harnessed for power ambitions. No one questions the investments made. The mental shift to, for example, a war economy isn’t very large.

It comes to mind that this diligent building of alliances won’t end well in the long run. Even Sauli Niinistö noted this in the winter:

“We are forming into two blocks more strongly than before: the Western block and the Chinese-Eastern block. If such a block division and the gap between them is deep, it inherently carries tensions.”

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China has released a new map and its neighbors are fuming.

India has also released a new map in response, tongue-in-cheek.
https://twitter.com/vtchakarova/status/1698017756317090082?t=4ZwlwFEuMMfcCmqONTgzGQ&s=19

Xi is skipping the G20 summit, which is being held specifically in India. This is also a signal.

I wonder if “Sale” (President Niinistö) has thought his comment all the way through. This is not nationalistic bloc formation, but a division into blocs based on values. Is Sale trying to hint that the West should try détente? Absurd! It has been tried with Russia for too long already, and what did we get in return? Western politicians corrupted by Russia, from Lipponen to Schröder, and as a bonus, the invasion of Ukraine in 2022. The détente card has been played out. Now we are trying the Reagan method. It worked against the Soviet Union and hopefully it will work now too.

The Western bloc is open to everyone. That includes China and Russia. Here is an easy four-point program for them:

  1. Don’t try to steal your neighbor’s territories.
  2. Human rights. In other words, don’t murder or imprison political opponents, ethnic minorities, or sexual minorities.
  3. Democracy.
  4. Market economy.

You don’t even need to fulfill all the conditions. The reason there were no blocs for a while was because Russia briefly chose a market economy and democracy. It quickly turned out to be a kleptocracy and totalitarianism. China was also more open, and there were hopes it would transform into some kind of state governed by the rule of law. Unfortunately, China chose to behave abominably towards both its own citizens and its neighbors.

The evolution of this YouTube channel illustrates China’s transformation well. The channel started over 10 years ago by presenting China and its culture in a positive light. A few years ago, the guy in question fled to the United States, practically fearing for his life. Apparently, not all of his videos pleased the Party.
https://youtube.com/@laowhy86?si=UbSnavpyl0sqkfgF

Brazil and India are interesting states. They actually meet those 4 conditions. Likely, the example of China and Russia does not appeal to them. Both countries have massive poverty, which creates a certain instability in these nations. Perhaps it will turn out that Russia becomes China’s raw material warehouse, while Brazil fills the gap left by Russia in Europe.

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[quote=“Avokado, post:4, topic:42693”]
Maybe what will happen is that Russia becomes China’s raw material storehouse, while Brazil fills the gap left by Russia in Europe.[/quote]

India would also like to use—and indeed already does use—Russia as its energy storehouse. It just wants to use its own currency, the Rupee, for trade. Russia, on the other hand, doesn’t want Rupees because it doesn’t really have anything to buy from India; Yuan and Dollars are more acceptable.
This currency mess is BRICS’s biggest problem. The Yuan is completely superior compared to other BRICS currencies, but it is not freely convertible, and China manipulates its exchange rate. My own view is that although BRICS is seen as an economic union built around China, China is actually BRICS’s biggest problem. The union would be more beneficial to the other member states without China than it is being dominated by China.

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The head of the China Office of Finnish Industries evaluated the current situation in this morning’s news:

Relations between the US and China are tense, but not stretched to the breaking point. Despite the tensions, there is still dialogue. He does not consider an invasion of Taiwan to be the most likely option.

BUT the weakening of China’s own (economic) situation and growth prospects creates danger. It is typical for autocratic countries to sweep their internal problems under the rug by focusing on an external enemy and external actions.

Therefore, a blockade of Taiwan could well be a possibility at some point. In addition to political reasons, this would have drastic economic consequences. For example, the semiconductor industry, which is central to Western technology, would be brought to its knees. Otherwise, the ripple effects would be felt throughout the entire economy.

A very significant factor to consider if you are thinking about investing in China or China-dependent companies.

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China’s territorial claims in the South China Sea aren’t just interesting; they are insane. According to China, the country’s southernmost point is James Shoal next to Malaysia. For those unfamiliar with the terminology, a shoal is an underwater or shallow accumulation of sand or other material. On what grounds does China then dare to claim an underwater sandbank for itself—the existence of which they weren’t even aware of a hundred years ago—and further demand full economic rights over its surroundings? In the 1930s, when the Chinese were studying British nautical charts, a translation error was made and the shoal became an island. And once a Chinese official decided to declare this “island” as Chinese property, backing down has become impossible.

The whole thing is just pure lawfare and posturing by the right of the stronger:

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This reminded me of a news story/stories from a few years back. They report on how the Chinese are building these islands/sandbanks themselves, based on which they then claim maritime areas for themselves.

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Bloomberg reports that China is drafting laws that dictate how people should dress.

The intention is to criminalize clothing that “damages the spirit of the Chinese people and hurts the feelings of the Chinese people.”

This Xi-Putin axis is doing its best before time takes its toll. Unfortunately, a lot of damage can be done even in a short time.

China’s public is expressing concern about a potential legal change that would allow for fines and even jail time for people who offend the government’s sensibilities by wearing the wrong clothing.

The Standing Committee of the nation’s legislature recently released a draft of revisions to the law it is considering that would forbid a range of behavior including dress or speech “detrimental to the spirit of the Chinese people and hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.”

The draft law highlights how Chinese leader Xi Jinping has clamped down on civil liberties in the nation of some 1.4 billion people over his decade in power, including by stepping up internet censorship. Police in Suzhou, a city near Shanghai, detained a woman last year for wearing a kimono in public.

China has a longstanding feud with Japan over its actions during World War II, a dispute that has recently been exacerbated by Tokyo’s decision to release treated wastewater from the wrecked Fukushima nuclear plant into the ocean.

Authorities have also clamped down on people wearing shirts with rainbows at concerts and distributing flags on a university campus that had the pro-LGBTQ symbol on them. The flag episode occurred at the prestigious Tsinghua University, which gave two students official reprimands.

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Good luck trying to plan a long-term strategy regarding Taiwan and others with Winnie the Pooh, when key figures are being made to disappear every now and then….

https://twitter.com/sariarhohavren/status/1701595053620400386?s=46&t=2ioRmPR9E06CY7pIWMMRqA

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Musk has once again shared his endless wisdom on geopolitics.

https://twitter.com/michaelsobolik/status/1701926222962266341?t=gxcVxlY5jjoj7flumRZadA&s=19

I wonder why…
https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1701968224001081480?t=B48W4syI-38NiMpH10rsMg&s=19

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In Taiwan, Musk’s comments didn’t receive any applause.

One has to wonder why Musk bothers to be a political actor in some capacity, because

  • when you bow in one direction, you show your backside to the other
  • when you give the devil an inch, he’ll take a mile
  • etc.

They say even a master has a master. But in Musk’s case, that doesn’t seem to be true. Uber-wealthy, major shareholder and Chairman of the Board, etc.
The SEC seems to be the only one that has managed to exert some control in a limited field.

https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/taiwan-blasts-elon-musk-over-latest-china-comments-3174063

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I don’t understand why people are so interested in what Musk says. Or at least, to my mind, his words shouldn’t really have any significance. For example, if we consider how the U.S. views the defense of Taiwan against China, it’s unlikely Musk’s opinions are being sought. Now, if a high-ranking U.S. politician, official, or military bigwig talks about Taiwan, that might actually matter.

I certainly agree that the guy should probably focus on something other than weighing in on geopolitics.

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I completely agree; Musk should focus on things other than Ukraine, messing around with Starlink, Taiwan, etc.

The problem with Musk is perhaps more that he’s asked about all sorts of things, he gives all sorts of answers, his opinions are published and shared, his opinions influence people, he is outright idolized…

If the gentleman were some deep-end VVK (Power Belongs to the People / Kremlin) fellow, it would just be meaningless babble.

But yes, there’s no point in overestimating his importance either, especially in a thread like this.

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On the internet, different people get attention than in the real world, and attention means the opportunity to influence opinions. Opinions, in turn, affect the real world and, for example, voting behavior.
Power belongs to those who can spread their message most effectively, and those who are silenced are left at a disadvantage.

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Maybe this could be continued in a different thread, but power and visibility are indeed two different things. Sure, with massive visibility, you can have a greater impact with your words than someone like me, but it doesn’t really work in a way that when Musk, Ronaldo, Trump, or even Ryan Gosling says something, people would act accordingly or change their mind.

If this were even remotely true, people would have been a fairly homogeneous bunch, as visibility was in the hands of a few for most of the time before the internet changed things. To me, this seems more like a familiar blast from the past, like when people were fretting over music that sang about suicide, saying: “Young people listen to it and idolize the band, so they’ll commit suicide.” Well, they didn’t, and they don’t act as Musk says. As a point of comparison, we can look at Musk’s past comments on candidate selection in elections or legislation, but they didn’t seem to have an effect, even though people were fretting over those too at the time using the same argument.

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Is China’s Xi capable of the same kind of madness as Putin?

There are no strong signs of such a thing, unless one considers Xi’s pursuit of increasingly tight and long-term autocracy and the sidelining of his opponents as such — just as Putin did over the years.

After reading about the disappearance of the Chinese Defense Minister and a few other high-ranking party officials over the past few weeks, it is something that has at least made me wonder. An attack on Taiwan could be the end of the story for modern China. At the same time, it would throw the entire world into a terrible mess, not to mention a possible military confrontation between China and the US in the Pacific.

The operations of Chinese aircraft and ships near Taiwan show no signs of ending. Taiwan’s Ministry of Defense stated today that 103 Chinese military aircraft flew near the country over the weekend, which is a “recent high.”

https://www.barrons.com/news/taiwan-says-103-chinese-warplanes-detected-around-island-f6b927f0

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The war in Ukraine may strongly affect China’s plans for Taiwan. Russian-made air defense and other weaponry have not proven to be particularly effective; on the other hand, Ukraine’s air defense capability, especially with Western equipment, is quite good relative to its resources. Similarly, Ukraine’s ability to inflict naval losses is a constant problem for Russia. Since Taiwan is an island and the distance from China is quite significant, an invasion attempt would likely lead to staggering losses.

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I wonder if they’re already 3D printing sea drones in Taiwan? It would be a good and cheap defense to make hundreds of them.

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Development work is certainly underway, but the quickest solution would be to purchase a license from Ukraine.