Inderes.fi content development ideas

I’m also getting errors again, and quite a lot; partly searches don’t work, and I get errors otherwise - I don’t know why. :slight_smile:


Give me rights to Inderes.fi, then I’d have some tagging and organizing to do for the night. :smiley:


Our goal is to beat Blumma in that field by the end of this decade.

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Apologies if this has been discussed before, but inderes.fi development idea:

Today when I went to the front page:

kuva

To my eye, such an ugly and unclear contraption between the company name and the stock price doesn’t really fit.
Could that “new” be placed next to “updated” or something similar, if such a thing must be there?

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Thanks @Mauri, @samamies, @_TeemuHinkula and @Midnight_Rendezvous for the pressure regarding 3rd party content and the blog :pray: We’ve had individual “blogs” on the forum and individual external writers on the site, but it would be sensible to consider this on a slightly larger and more strategic level. Verneri and I can grab some Danish pastries to discuss the topic!

Thanks for the feedback @Ummon! We included the latest content in the followed list, but we are also developing this based on feedback. We wanted the view to be far enough to the left so that it’s immediately visible to mobile users, but it would probably also work after the % price column :thinking:

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Apologies for the slight radio silence, by the way! Earnings season is in full swing here, but here’s a quick status update before May Day :partying_face:

  • :arrow_forward: The homepage’s followed list has been updated, as Ummo noted above. Feedback is welcome!
  • :technologist: Our software developer recruitment is underway, and the application period has ended. If any forum member experiences a late awakening, feel free to get in touch!
  • :robot: AI experiments regarding robo-comments have been scaled and automated, which has also brought new problems to the surface. We fixed a bug that caused a few completely wrong comments yesterday and last week when the bot selected the wrong pre-comment. We are iterating on these in terms of both concept and quality, so all comments on the format and utility are welcome!
  • :bell: For notifications, we will be rolling out a new backend system in May. The user experience should not significantly worsen; instead, it should fix problems and add flexibility for the future.
  • :mount_fuji: Inderes’ CMD will be held on May 27th, and as part of this strategic work, we have also clarified the focus areas for the web platform, forum, and AI projects. More on these then :blush:
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Good, good. This brought to mind a general development suggestion regarding Inderes’ texts.

Firstly, it’s naturally human for errors to creep into texts, and it naturally happens to all analysts. Fortunately, it happens significantly less often to analysts than to the average financial newspaper journalist :slight_smile:

But in one respect, financial newspaper journalists - or the media houses that pay their salaries - are better. When content is corrected in the media, information about what content has been changed and when is added to the end of the article. I would like to see a similar change in analyses / analyst comments.

Justification: When making new stock investments, one not only reads analysts’ comments but also returns to them many times to examine various details, etc. When going over the same texts, one naturally reads them more broadly and hastily each time. It would be great if investors were somehow informed that the content of an article has been modified after its publication, for example, with numerical corrections.

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Those bot comments are good, but now having read a couple, I noticed that it’s difficult to understand whether one number exceeds or falls below another.

Screenshot_20250508-090326~2

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That net cash flow is also too difficult for the robo, although the term is almost disinformative, and I think that 90% of investors also misunderstand it. :smiley:

It’s not business cash flow, but customers’ money flowing in. :smiley: It’s not the company’s own money! :smiley:

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I would prefer if the company’s published figures, analysts’ forecasts, and other comparative figures were presented as numbers or tables right at the beginning. One could see everything at a glance.

Instead, Robo describes the revenue in a roundabout way over several lines and sometimes forgets to mention some of the figures, only stating, for example, that revenue slightly missed the analyst’s forecast, without providing the actual number. The same pattern is repeated for different income statement lines.

Adding those figures to the beginning of the report should be quite easy.

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Thanks for the comments! We were just discussing the same topic in the office hallway, so let’s share our preliminary development ideas for robo-comments here. The goal is to roll these out before the July results, let’s see how it goes :blush:

  • We are automating comments for all companies for this earnings season, which has, as expected, brought up a few bugs and quality challenges. Some have already been fixed, but for example, the intro section needs to be separated into a distinct prompt to ensure better quality.
  • Regarding the table, we are currently working on an improvement to our content management system to get rid of screenshot tables. This way, we can have a cleaner table that the robo can also create at the beginning of the comment.
  • We will also consider the division between robo-comments vs. analyst quick comments, i.e., what all we publish robo-comments for and in what format. One question mark, for example, is whether analysts enrich robo-comments or if quick comments are published separately.

All comments and ideas are gladly received :pray: We are currently in the middle of recruitment interviews, so apologies for the slightly slower response time :technologist:

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Would it be possible to get robot comments also from these companies publishing monthly reviews? Besides Gofore and Witted, are there currently other similar ones? Of course, one can quickly type the numbers into Excel oneself, but one would think this would be a very easy task for a robot.

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Great!
The fact that feedback is received on the content of those bot comments validates that they generally create value. Lingering silence is much worse. :chart_increasing::chart_increasing::chart_increasing:

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Request for interviews:

Please welcome the interviewee by name and mention the company.

I just listened to a couple of interviews published today, and it took a moment to realize which company was being discussed and who the interviewee was.

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Small update on new things:

  • :bell: We updated our notification system to a new one. We have already received feedback on both button placements and push notifications, based on which we will make improvements in the coming months. If you notice anything strange or something bothers you, send us a message!
  • :bar_chart: We added graphs to the figures on company pages, for example Gofore. The graphs and their state might still look a bit odd, especially for loss-making growth companies, but we will improve them over time (the graphs, not the companies :smiley: )
    image
  • :robot: We are currently working on improvements to robo-comments and will be conducting various AI experiments throughout the summer and autumn. More on these later:)
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We are exploring the construction of a multilingual international forum :earth_asia:

As part of our Gen AI Business Finland project, we are investigating the possibilities of creating a multilingual forum that connects Inderes members across country and language borders.

Why?
We want to connect investors and companies, and quality investment discussion knows no language barriers. However, language-independent natural discussion has not been possible before, or its implementation has been incredibly expensive. Now, new AI language models enable multilingual discussion even in an investment context.

What would this mean in practice?
In the future, Inderes would have only one forum where the user sees messages in their preferred language. This would not change the current situation, but in the future, some messages could originally be written in a different language. Currently, some threads already contain English messages, but in the target state, these would be automatically translated, depending on the user’s preferred language and settings. As a result, the less used .se and .dk forums will be discontinued, and users will be directed to the current forum.

When?
Over the summer, we will investigate the technical implementation and limitations, and conduct various experiments. We want to keep the bar high for user experience and the natural flow of discussion, so the intention is not to create a half-baked version.

Our community and analysis team believes that language independence would enrich company discussions and the number of companies covered. However, for this to succeed, it requires sufficiently good technical implementation and moderation.

What are your thoughts on this? :blush:

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Great that there’s no lack of ambition. :+1: Here are some quick thoughts that came to mind:

Although a bit off-topic, Yle’s (Finnish Broadcasting Company) yesterday’s article Tekoälyä käytetään viihdekirjojen suomentamiseen – asian­tuntijat varoittavat riskeistä | Kulttuuri | Yle about AI in literary translation raises concerns in this context too.
Will local expressions from different languages, “dividend party” (osinkopuolue), “scam markets” (kusetusmarkkinat), be translated correctly? Will AI correctly interpret sarcasm? And what about moderation? The article also states that one must read both the original and the translation and then decide if it was correct. And if one can choose the language to read in, an enormous number of moderators will be needed, as they must be able to moderate from every language to every language.
As a writer, I also wouldn’t be entirely sure if I want AI to translate my text into a language I don’t understand. At least I couldn’t hold myself responsible for the content of the text. Is Inderes prepared to bear this responsibility?

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Thanks @Huomioita for your comments and questions!

We will certainly encounter various awkwardnesses here, but I believe we can teach the AI to understand “Hesuli” and other terms quite well. We have translated content into Swedish, for example, the latest Aiforia comment. In these cases, the quality has been sufficient for native speakers, but a translation is always a translation. Below are some examples of English corrections from our language bank; Sunborn’s “jahtihotelli” (yacht hotel), for instance, was not a familiar concept :sweat_smile:

image

This can be challenging, as automatic translators in Google Chrome and add-ons are already popular. The most important thing, in my opinion, is to highlight that it is a translation and to easily enable viewing the original version.

Here, we will certainly get to iterate on the quality of translations, exceptional cases, and usability for both current and new users. Fortunately, at Inderes, we also have translation professionals, so the intention is to approach this problem interdisciplinarily with them, the community team, and developers!

P.S. It’s funny that Han Kang’s books were mentioned in the Yle article. I have read two of them in English, as I have been disappointed a few times with Finnish translations that were actually translated into Finnish from English translations. I should read the next Han Kang book in Taru Salminen’s Finnish translation then :blush:

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Well, one could try that. But you will run into a huge number of problems. At least these come to mind:

  • Cultural differences; some things translate poorly. What is an understandable receipt in Finnish might translate into something inappropriate in English.

  • Translating text in embedded images. I doubt that AI can yet quite manage to magically translate text within images into a version where the text is in a different language. Perhaps someday…?

  • The general quality problem of automatic translations: if a human doesn’t proofread, errors will occur. Modern AI translators make fewer errors, but still likely too many. One could, of course, perhaps try to circumvent this with some kind of “community notes”-style functionality where users reading the text can instruct the machine translator and offer corrections that might then be taken into account with some logic.

  • Is there much added value compared to a forum operating in one language that users browse through their browser’s translator feature? This way, the reader knows that the translation can be anything, whereas if the translation happens on the site itself, the quality level is expected to be “perfect”.

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Interesting project! I personally don’t believe technology will be a problem; language models are excellent (surprisingly) with languages. Difficulties might arise from how you attract non-Finnish-speaking users to the forum, but I’m sure that can also be solved.

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Yep, this is no silver bullet. But at least it makes it possible, as there’s a lot of good and useful discussion here about many interesting companies from Finland and internationally. :coffee: :blush:

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That first part is true, of course, but there the reader chooses to translate. If that latter part comes true, it improves the situation, though if one doesn’t understand the original language, the quality of the translation cannot be assessed.
I think it’s good to remember that it’s not just about translation but about localization; when a Finn writes a comment comparing something to Wahlroos, the same comment localized for an American might refer to Buffett, for example.

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