Car - A brake on getting rich?

Personal finances
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3519

If the vehicle is suitably rugged, a cold shed is enough for winter storage. Mandatory maintenance costs include an inspection every 4 years and traffic insurance under 40 euros.

Then, if you fall for a rust bomb where everything needs to be renewed as a purchased service, it will of course be expensive, if you can even find someone to do the work.

But if the target was, for example, a well and carefully restored or well-preserved Volkswagen Beetle, their maintenance is not necessarily terribly expensive at all. It would be good to know how to do some maintenance and checks yourself.

The simplest option is some two-stroke motorcycle.

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3520

Two months ago, I decided that my investment mistakes weren’t slowing down my wealth accumulation enough, so I bought a car. With cash. And a proper petrol crematorium, not some battery-powered thing, i.e., a 21-year-old Volvo. It cost less money than the investment losses incurred in -23 and -24, so something had to be done. The real reason, of course, is the upcoming summer cottage season and the previous Volvo ending up with the ex after the breakup.

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3522

Sometimes you just stop and think about the moments of joy rust brings… Here are a few quotes from my diary:
“Changing the subframe in a gravel yard made me consider getting a Föli card…”
“The job rocks, as long as the slag flies somewhere other than up my sleeve.”
“Heh, side skirt plastics… Probably shouldn’t have taken these off.”
Proceed to put them back with a self-drilling screws

Professional rust repairs are expensive, including preparations and painting, so in my own delusion, I truly feel that with my tiny proactive DIY acts, I will save a few pennies. My intention is therefore to keep the metals hard and the inspector soft for a long time, even though I really enjoy welding.

• Waxes and coatings. In summer, the sun damages the paint surface, and in winter, salt causes trouble. It’s good to wash and protect the vehicle regularly.
• Stone chips. In my opinion, these should only be found on the hood, fenders, and sills. Since we’ve come this far from biblical times, your vehicle’s dealer should have dab-on touch-up paints by color code. There are also generic paints available if the visual presentation doesn’t matter that much – covering bare metal is still the most important point. This procedure can be done once a year, for example.
• When changing winter wheels to summer ones, it might be a good idea to remove the inner fender liners at the same time. This allows you to nicely rinse away the winter grime from behind the inner fenders. The removal itself isn’t a difficult task, but this procedure, including the tire change, might take a bit longer than a basic F1 pit stop.
• Cavity waxes/rustproofing agents. I won’t bother linking, but on YouTube, you can find, for example, NosSam’s “Kotelosuoja Testi 2023” (Cavity Protection Test 2023) video, which proves that products available even in department stores significantly slow down the destruction of rusted metal. I’ve personally used Biltema’s wax-based ones because I feel they don’t trap moisture against the metal, unlike some of the market’s thickest sealants might do.

Rusting can also start from inside the body, so cavity waxes can be sprayed into the sills, for example, through the holes of the body’s plastic plugs. Spray guns that connect to compressed air are also quite affordably available. You can even attach a hose to them, which allows you to reach tight spots nicely.

The pockets of the shock absorbers have relatively challenging shaped metal to work on, so it’s good to poke some prevention in there too. From behind the inner fender liners, I treat the wheel arches. A one-way ticket to Africa (i.e., scrapping the car) is usually issued due to a rusted rear crossmember, so it’s good to pay attention to the rear end as well. With the remaining gunk, you can even douse the subframe under the engine. These cannot be welded to make them strong again; when they rust through, they must be replaced with new ones.

The liquids, guns, and waxes can be bought from a store for less than a hundred euros at their cheapest.

By the way, here’s a pretty good promotional video for rust protection that I once saw on the TV at the inspection station.

If you’ve just happened to bring home some cash from the stock market and are very attached to your own car, then it’s nice to take the vehicle to a professional – it certainly won’t harm the car’s resale value; quite the opposite.

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3523

Just after last summer, I cleaned and cleared the area behind the inner fender of my car from debris, because of which rust had started to break through the paint from the bottom corner of the door and the sill (a difficult spot). I removed the rust with sandpaper, applied rust-stopper, and spray painted over it.

After winter, the rust had returned, and this time from an even wider area… Now I need to figure out some new way to tackle and slow that down.

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3524

Hmm, it might sound like there could also be more rust brewing on the other side of the sheet metal?

And yes, some parts of the car are quite difficult to work on. Even inside the rocker panel, you can’t easily get in with quick tricks, except with cavity wax. As needed, by removing the protective plastics or by spraying through the gaps of the body plugs, you can reach the spots.

Phosphoric acid can also be tried for chemical rust treatment, although it’s a bit challenging to make it stay on, for example, vertical surfaces – a gel-like phosphoric acid has at least sometimes been available from stores, and thanks to its consistency, it stays on the target a bit more tenaciously.

Then, instead of that basic spray paint, you could consider, for example, zinc-enriched paints. Brush-on paints are also available. In those zinc spray cans, there’s probably not many percent of zinc, but even that is better than nothing.

Judging by your message, the game is not lost yet, and I certainly wouldn’t start wielding an angle grinder and cutting discs just yet.

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3525

Could you advise a beginner on the supplies, primer, and topcoat for preventing rust on the doors of an Audi A3 2006? Appearance doesn’t matter much, as long as the rust stops or at least slows down.
The front fenders are completely shot there, as the inner fenders haven’t been removed for years.

I have 2K primer spray. Additionally, I guess I’ll need a wire wheel brush or a brass brush for a drill, sandpaper, and thinner. What about rust converter/zinc paint for the base, and where can I get topcoat? Moronet? And does it need clear coat on top?

3526

Since there won’t be a show game from Audi, I might dare to answer this a bit, even though I’m not a car painter.

Unfortunately, I don’t have much experience with Motonet’s topcoats, as I usually go to a local paint shop with the color code in hand for topcoats. Lacquer is not mandatory, but it does provide additional protection. Without lacquer, the final result will also remain somewhat matte/dull.

You can get the following products from Motonet, I checked!

Start with a wire brush wheel on an angle grinder. Nylon ones are also quite good, softer. Wheels are also available for drills. Life is good. You can really go at the bubbles, as rust might also be hidden under the “healthy paint”… Sanding pads are also quite handy, especially for flat surfaces.

After the initial work, I’ve applied phosphoric acid as a precaution, brushing it on and repeating the process if necessary.
“Motox phosphoric acid gel”

Depending on the target, I’ve used Motonet’s primers or zinc paints:
• Maston Zinc from a can, applied with a brush.

And from spray cans:
• CAR-REP Rust Primer (rust-inhibiting primer).
OR
• CRC Galvacolor 2in1. This has zinc paint and primer in the same package. Both are quite functional for their price, whichever happens to be lying around.

Wet sanding and topcoat afterwards. Finally, some 1K Acrylic lacquer on top, but carefully, it runs easily.

And even though the importance of mechanical rust removal cannot be bypassed with liquids, if it’s at all possible to spray cavity protection agent inside the doors, I would do that last. You can ask for fenders from a junkyard (Rompparilta), sometimes you can even order new ones from there.

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3527

Remove the rust with an abrasive brush as thoroughly as possible, then clean out the cavities with a small compressor and a spot sandblaster. This will also make the surface suitably rough so that the paint adheres well. For primer and topcoat matters, a knowledgeable automotive paint store is the place that can sell functional and mutually compatible products.

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3528

If there’s any chance to use a compressor, I recommend getting a twenty-euro paint sprayer from Biltema. Spray paints create such thin layers of paint that you’ll have to redo it next spring.

Of course, you can spray multiple layers, but it quickly becomes surprisingly expensive.

From: Surface treatment master

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3529

The strongest phosphoric acid was found at Ikh. It was about 80%. On various forums, POR paints have been praised if you can’t get all the rust off the sheet metal. Then I got a small can of it. First, grind off as much rust as possible. Then brush on 80% acid and do intermediate brushings. Let it dry. Then POR paint or if all rust is definitely gone - epoxy paint. Doing it that way, the surfaces have started to hold up quite well. If you need a good rust preventative, Dinitrol ML is very thin and penetrating. It displaces water. You can do re-treatments because it doesn’t create a waxy surface.

For the snowmobile track tunnel, the most thorough treatment will be applied. 90% of the old sheet metal will be removed and new formed sheet metal will be put in its place.

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3531

The hunt for a second car started seriously again yesterday; it’s becoming quite a hassle with just one car. I was drooling over a v70 last night, but it was already gone in the morning. I called about a station wagon Accord several times, but got no answer. I drove an -05 2.0 vvt Avensis; it was surprisingly spacious and okay to drive. The condition of the paintwork also surprised me. On the passenger side, I couldn’t even straighten my legs enough to use all the space, even with a child seat (Britax Dualfix M) in the back. A shady history made it so that this unit also got rejected. Tomorrow, I’m going to see another one; hopefully, it’s what I expect.

It’s a completely different matter looking at these cars when you always have to fit a car seat in them, and for a longer trip, you have to take the whole family along.

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3532

The price tag of owning a relatively new car is, by a back-of-the-envelope calculation, about 5 million euros.

The calculation assumes a down payment of €10,000 (an initial investment), and thereafter, car-related expenses, including loan repayments, amount to €1,500 per month for 40 working years.

When these figures are entered into Seligson’s return calculator, they yield an investment portfolio of approximately 5 million at the end of the investment period (with the benchmark return being the stock market return).

This is, of course, a rough simplification, but the opportunity cost of car ownership is nonetheless very significant. It is often pointed out that if a smoker invests the money spent on cigarettes in the stock market, they will become a millionaire. In the case of car ownership, we are already talking about a multi-millionaire.

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3533

Yesterday in Tuusula, there were quite a few of these ‘wealth brakes’ all at once. Although many of them are such that wealth must first have been accumulated in one way or another, they are also such that wealth is not lost or may even grow.

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3534

And no one drives the same car for 40 years. For me, the car changes every 3-5 years, and in between, a fairly large top-up payment has to be made.

But that’s the kind of life I want to live, and it’s pointless to calculate opportunity costs for it. Anyway, life is much more enjoyable when you don’t think about everything in terms of money. After all, it’s not worth getting a summer cottage, a motorcycle, a pet, or even children, as they too would have some opportunity cost.

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3535

@miljonaariksi Germans have researched this without an investment alternative.

If, in addition to the costs of that GLC-Mercedes or even a Corsa, one also calculates the societal costs, for example in the form of a tax percentage, then it is difficult to justify widespread private car ownership from an economic perspective.

Let’s include the link to my 2022 post, so it’s easier to find: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800921003943

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3536

So the entire calculation is based on constantly having a relatively new car, for which debt is continuously being paid off. Otherwise, the cost would not be €1500/month for the entire 40 years.

@Addick, quite an interesting study, and in fact, based on it, the alternative cost of 5 million euros would seem to be an underestimate. According to Seligson’s calculator, car ownership costs about €650,000 over 40 years, and the return on capital is about €4,350,000. So the alternative cost of an Opel Corsa is around 5 million.

For the typical German travel distance of 15,000 car kilometers per year, the total lifetime cost of car ownership (50 years) ranges between €599,082 for an Opel Corsa to €956,798 for a Mercedes GLC. The share of this cost born by society is 41% (€4674 per year) for the Opel Corsa, and 29% (€5273 per year) for the Mercedes GLC. Findings suggest that for low-income groups, private car ownership can represent a cost equal to housing, consuming a large share of disposable income. This creates complexities in perceptions of transport costs, the economic viability of alternative transport modes, or the justification of taxes.

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3537

Now you’re generalizing a bit too much. If there’s no car, those trips are still made somehow, unless the assumption is that one walks their entire life. Furthermore, in the case of all of Finland, you also need to calculate the opportunity cost of everyone living in a large city next to public transport. The price tag for housing starts to rise.

Would it still be cheaper? Absolutely.

As for the topic itself, another brake on wealth accumulation arrived in the yard. An Avensis 2.0 vvt with a good 200,000 km on the clock. A huge leap forward in quality compared to the previous body model (-98 Avensis) that I owned about 15 years ago.

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3538

Well, driving is often the biggest expense after housing. 1500€/month already gets you a pretty lavish car, as a company car benefit it corresponds to about a 110k€ electric car. With a private lease and moderate mileage, you can probably get an even more expensive one.

Of course, I don’t want to believe that anyone would get a vehicle equivalent to a 110k€ car with very low income.

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3539

One can also try to save on car costs, if one wants to delve into it. This time, in addition to the internet, my own experiences, and acquaintances, I harnessed chatgpt. I specified exactly what I wanted: a second car that could fit two rear-facing seats in the back, relatively reliable and safe. With these specs, I threw screenshots from various sales listings on nettiauto, asking, “Is this good?” It quite well dug up common faults, things to pay attention to, and even allowed comparing different cars with each other.

I test drove several cars, accumulating a total of 300km from this. I called several more, and spent hours on nettiauto. The original target was a car costing two to three thousand euros, which swelled to a car under 5000€ solely due to the need for space and safety. It was again noted that for the same money, you can get things from one extreme to the other. The worst was a unit that had been sitting in the yard, where the metal surface was green, the front bumper was completely scratched, a bearing in the gearbox was howling, it had been two years since the last service, and generally, tape fixes were revealed here and there on site. The best was freshly inspected, paintwork in good condition, with new summer tires, a recently done clutch repair, and no modifications anywhere. It wasn’t hard to choose which one to buy, and surprisingly, even with bargaining, the price difference between them was only 800€.

Rust is something you can’t be sure about without a lift, but let’s hope the Avensis is a better solution than the Accord in this regard.

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3540

I’ve inspected the underbody of a T25 Avensis driven 300,000 km quite a bit, and even though every car is unique, my attention has been drawn to rust in the following areas:

  • Control arms. I’ve replaced both front ones, as they were rusted through. They are quite easy to replace, but the rear ones are more challenging.
  • Rear wheel arches. The fabric inner fenders trap moisture, so I’ve done some minor sanding and preventive treatment; I’ve had to repair one spot on this particular car.

The rear end tends to rust a bit more readily, but the engine subframe should also be checked.

It’s a damn good car otherwise; that 2.0l VVT is a competent engine. Fresh oil every year, and it will last a long time.

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