A 20-gram bar cannot, however, possibly contain 27 grams of solein?
Are you seriously going to argue against science with your own opinions? This discussion is almost entirely based on science. On official recommendations; if they are not followed â no marketing authorization. Or in the case of the US, if they are not followed and some people happen to experience severe symptoms from too much iron â Class action lawsuit and a few billion in compensation.
This is not a problem that can be dismissed by just saying âoh my god, no one eats ten bars a day!â.
As for the companyâs silence, at least for me, it causes a loss of trust. If the company is silent about such a matter, it will likely also be silent about other negative issues. A company representative did show up, but unfortunately, it seemed more like an attempt to mislead than an admission of the problem. So, I will probably not invest in this company, even if they eventually find a solution to this iron problem.
It has been reported here and in public that soleiin contains 75% protein. To make a 20g protein bar, 27 grams of soleiin are needed. The protein content is calculated from soleiin and the amount of iron obtained from the protein, because environmentally friendly protein production â disregarding some factors (energy required for preparing the nutrient solution) â is the main point here. Understandable?
Good that you brought it up.
Now, https://soleiini.fi/ states that soleiin contains 65-70% protein, meaning that even more soleiin than calculated above, about 30 grams, must be added to a 20g protein bar â resulting in an even greater iron load! Itâs pointless to talk about vampire diets and iron deficiency if soleiin is not intended to be marketed as an iron supplement. The problem remains for the small part of the population for whom excess iron is toxic. Others will probably manage, provided stomach problems do not prevent its use.
Here is yet another striking example of how the target price follows the stock price:
Sep 11, the target price was set at 11 euros, with the stock price at 12.35
Sep 27, the target price was set at 10 euros, with the stock price at 8.9 euros
Dec 20, the target price was set at 5 euros, with the stock price at 4.67
In my opinion, nothing has changed so dramatically for the company in 3 months that the target price is less than half of the initial level. Certainly, the target price can always be made to look justified by simply adjusting the parameters used in the calculation, but for me, this type of target price tracking relative to the stock price completely undermines the analystâs credibility. I do not own shares in this company, but I have often noticed that analysts often donât âdareâ to express a bold opinion, but rather follow the stock price in their target price setting.
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To keep a protein bar together, more than just protein is needed for its production. A quick Google search shows that protein bars typically contain 22-32 grams of protein per 100 grams of bar. Thus, for a 20-gram bar with a protein content of 30% (i.e., 6g of the barâs weight is protein), 8 grams of soleiini (Solein) would be needed (if we assume that Soleinâs protein content is 75% and Solein is the barâs only protein source).
At the same time, the bar would get 0.08 x 128 milligrams of iron (assuming that one hundred grams of Solein contains 128 milligrams of iron) = just over 10 mg of iron. Of this amount, perhaps 10%, or 1 milligram, is absorbed into the body, given that it is non-heme iron. So, a personâs risk of death is unlikely to change, even if they ate two bars a day.
Itâs also probably good to mention here that because the human body cannot efficiently remove iron, its absorption from the small intestine is very strongly dependent on whether the body needs iron or not. If there is enough, absorption is also less. Overdose is rare in those who do not have hemochromatosis.
Solein is also not broken down into nutrients before being added to the bar, meaning that even if its protein content is less than 100%, it is certainly not first made into pure protein, which is then somehow magically transformed into bar form without any other substances. Furthermore, if everything other than protein were easy to remove from Solein, then it wouldnât contain the iron that everyone is so terribly worried about here.
In Singapore and the USA, there are (at least for now) certainly very competent people granting food permits. They have obtained permits with these iron contents, and NASA has also partnered with them. So, letâs use some common sense in these calculations.
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This is what we started discussing.
You seem to have misunderstood what I wrote, either intentionally or accidentally. A protein bar or other serving containing 20 g of protein, which is what we started discussing here, obviously doesnât weigh 20 g; it contains that much protein. Itâs not worth confusing things.
A bar, i.e., a âprotein bar,â containing 20 g of protein (which would be approx. 30 g of Solein), probably weighs about 60 g. Example: www.fitnesstukku.fi/18-x-mars-protein-bar-57-g/FP5883-40.html?utm_source=google\u0026utm_medium=cpc\u0026utm_campaign=00%3A%20%20pmax_supplements_ftfi_fi\u0026gclsrc=aw.ds\u0026\u0026shopping_id_click=FP5883-40\u0026gad_source=1\u0026gclid=CjwKCAiAyJS7BhBiEiwAyS9uNQu76g7yxc5p97XAy-4aaNvPYSW7rbwFZVMhip-u64xwTTR3jf2VrBoC-QYQAvD_BwE
If you now explain that Solein, calculated as protein, is put into an 8 g bar, it certainly cannot be called a protein bar or a protein source; it already sounds better, and at the same time, it becomes increasingly insignificant from a nutritional perspective 
Read the calculations a few times, and youâll understand that they donât claim that protein is first extracted separately from Solein⊠the body handles that.
I agree that one should not approach investments too emotionally. Letâs hope (even if itâs not a good strategy) that Solar Foods finds a microbe that is not so iron-rich. That way, a larger portion of the otherwise insignificant (according to what you said, indeed!) remaining protein intake could be safely increased. It may well be that a few grams of Solein per day is âniceâ to eat, but as an idea, it probably wonât carry far in space, and certainly not on Earth.
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Once again: if one hundred grams of solein contain 128 milligrams of iron and the protein content of a protein bar is 30% (varying between 22-32%), then
a 20-gram protein bar would require 8 grams of solein, which would contain a good 10 mg of iron, and
similarly, a 60-gram protein bar would naturally require 24 grams of solein, which would contain about 31 mg of iron.
This is still not so much that I would think the use of solein would be banned in the EU. Of course, this matter must be taken into account, but since problems are usually caused by too little iron in the diet, and certainly not by excessive iron intake, I donât see this as nearly as big a problem as has been presented in this discussion. In the old days (until 1994), iron was added to bread flour even here, so that people would get enough of it. In my opinion, the arrival of solein on the market, even with this very manageable amount of iron, is a very welcome addition to the already quite diverse range of food products containing various proteins.
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20-gram protein bar 
For your information, one sukulaku (licorice candy) weighs 14 grams.
But anyway. You calculated even a reasonably sized bar and came up with 31mg of iron. Thatâs almost 4 times the recommended daily dose. Those recommendations arenât pulled out of thin air, but are based on extensive research. Side effects can start to appear after 45mg for some people, and certainly earlier for those suffering from hemochromatosis.
Even if things were done a certain way before, it doesnât mean they should still be done that way. Research has shown that practices should be changed, and solein is not a reason to revert to old ways. We no longer drink fizzy drinks made from coca leaves or brush our teeth with radioactive toothpaste. Be reasonable with those arguments!
Nothing revolutionary will certainly happen if a generally healthy person eats one protein bar made from solein (just one; itâs not advisable to eat more if you have plans for the evening), but the problem is that they likely wonât get food approval. (NOTE! To my knowledge, the USA has not yet granted food approval for solein. There is a so-called Self-affirmed GRAS, which, as its name suggests, is a âself-preparedâ assurance that the product is safe.) From an investorâs perspective, itâs quite a big problem if the companyâs only product is shot down and forced to be shelved.
If you were an investor in this company, you would be interested in knowing exactly where things truly and genuinely stand with the iron issue, because your own money would be at stake. Will it be a problem with food approvals in the US and Europe? Will Solar Foodsâ only product be shelved permanently when eyes are opened? You wouldnât be so eager to silence the voices of discussants if you were genuinely interested in hearing the truth about iron. Why wouldnât you be interested? Therefore, and also judging by your comments, I dare to suspect that you are close to the company and are here merely defending Solar Foods, in a way that downplays science, possibly in the role of an employee or someone close to one.
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Pivoting to protein supplements and other health products is, in my opinion, exactly the right solution for this very reason. Solein brings protein, sustainability, and micronutrients to the mixture. More protein can be added with other plant-based ingredients. Additionally, umami, which is often missing from plant protein. The product is not currently an optimal basic protein in terms of price and trace elements. The original idea of desert protein might be realized if there is a variety among the microbes in the development pipeline that is poorer in nutrients in this respect. In the future, the varieties could average out nicely in a good mixture. As far as I understand, the intention is still to sell powder, so the customer can make the mixtures themselves. Alongside this, something like mushroom protein or traditional agriculture-based fermentation could fit. However, there is also quite a lot of iron in liver and blood pancakes, which people with absorption disorders avoid eating. However, a normal personâs recommended daily intake probably still cannot be in one bar, so some mixture must currently be made.
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I wonder if what is said below is true,
as we know, Finland is doing terribly, our strength is expertise & trust and communication is valued asap, and we donât hide behind a hamburger,
oh right, I suggested changing the title Solar Foods Oyj - global protein production innovator to a protein bar manufacturer, but the friendly Inderes (Inderes) police made their own decision
Solein (soleiini) is not a protein, but an iron-rich microbial mass, although the -iin (iini) suffix is used perhaps for easily understandable reasons,
well, they brewed their own soup, I canât understand the expertise of big Fazer (Fazer), can I speak shit
"SoleinÂź is nutritious and functionally superior â it can be used in all foods regardless of dietary restrictions.
SoleinÂź is a new protein made from air. It is backed by Finnish food technology company Solar Foods."
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- SoleinÂź is nutritious and functionally superior â it can be used in all foods regardless of dietary restrictions.
- SoleinÂź is a new protein made from air. Behind it is the Finnish food technology company Solar Foods.
- SoleinÂź originates from a naturally occurring and unmodified single-celled organism.
I thought that the statements were enough and enough had been said, but this is getting increasingly absurd. Wouldnât the media be interested in these press releases and backgrounds, Hesariâs @Alex_af_Heurlin1
Here, we might be doing a disservice (pun intended) to the reputation of cellular agriculture. âregardless of dietary restrictions,â âfrom air,â âfrom a single-celled organismâ - who would eat bacteria or microbes now?
The Consumer Ombudsman and the Food Agency are probably the right authorities to complain to about such advertising and potentially misleading health claims. Also, send the aforementioned press release to Fazer by email, if it would lead to anything. This discussion thread could be used as a reference, as different viewpoints have been presented, including potential health problems and the companyâs attitude towards them. This could even be about causing danger.
Itâs interesting that Solar has managed to get Fazer to put its reputation on the line; money has apparently already been invested. If, in the end, Fazerâs involvement is just about âmaking a few small bars with a tiny bit of Solein and looking good,â then the matter is understood. If, however, Solar intends to start mass-producing Solein by the ton with the goal of feeding it to the population âwithout restrictions,â the matter would be different.
The health claim might pass in Singapore because the proportion of the population of European descent there is small. The most common type of iron absorption disorder is very rare among Asians, although it does exist there too. Even in a population the size of Finland, there are still plenty of individuals with absorption disorders. Among those of European descent, it is significant in 3-4 per thousand, with 90% of those cases caused by the HFE gene mutation. In Finland and the USA, the claim will not pass. In Finland, there are 15,000 - 20,000 people at risk, and in the US, a million, reference higher up in the thread.
Practical advice from the website of one of the worldâs most respected American hospitals:
- âAvoid iron supplements and multivitamins containing iron.These can increase your iron levels even more.â
-And not necessarily all those at risk are aware of it before damage occurs.
According to the company, the mineral content is 3-5% of the dried microbial biomass, which is called Solein. From that, I calculated earlier that iron could be as much as 1.6%. The company certainly knows the reality, or at least it would be easy to measure, for example, with spectrometry. And to disclose it.
According to literature, 1-10% of non-heme iron is absorbed, so the companyâs test tube calculation, where they use âless than 5%â, could well be only half of the actual amount, or it could even be double. According to the precautionary principle, the amount of absorbed iron should be calculated as at least twice the companyâs stated 128 mg / 100 g, i.e., 256 mg / 100 g. Even with the companyâs chosen figure, we are, of course, already in trouble. The safe upper limit for a healthy person is 45 mg/day. An absorption disorder can quadruple the amount of absorbed iron.
Itâs great to rush to market first, but if only there had been a little more patience regarding the risks of a certain bacterium. Warning letter included with the bar/portions?:
Warning: High Iron Content - Risk of Hemochromatosis
This product contains a high amount of iron. Excessive intake of iron can be harmful to individuals with or at hereditary risk for hemochromatosis or other iron overload disorders.
Hemochromatosis is a condition where the body absorbs too much iron from food, which can lead to iron accumulation in organs like the liver, heart, and others. Iron can cause serious health issues, including liver damage, heart disease, diabetes, and hormonal imbalances.
Instructions:
-
âIf you have been diagnosed with hemochromatosis, iron overload, or if there is a family history of these conditions, consult your healthcare provider before using this product.â
-
âDo not use this product if you have restrictions on iron intake or if you experience symptoms that suggest iron overload (such as fatigue, joint pain, skin color changes).â
Consultation Request:
- âPlease consult a healthcare professional if you are unsure whether this product is safe for you.â
Contact Information:
- âFor questions regarding this warning or the product, please contact [Manufacturerâs or Sellerâs Contact Information].â
Compliance with Law:
- âThis warning is provided in accordance with the recommendations and regulations of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and other applicable health authorities.â
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Solar Foods undeniably circumvents the word âbacteriaâ or âmicrobeâ to such an extent that itâs noticeable. However, it is a dried and pasteurized product, whereas yogurt and viili are living bacterial masses. There is therefore nothing special about bacterial protein in this regard. The novelty is hydrogen-based production, whereas traditionally cultivated bacteria and microfungi (Quorn, tempeh) use agricultural sugar either directly or by decomposition.
Vegan diets often lack iron and especially vitamin B12, which they often have to take from a supplement. Thus, itâs a good partial protein in the mixture until the concentration is lowered or pivoted from whole cells to individual products (Hydrocow, Beta-lactoglobulin).
Demonizing doses within recommendations is not justified in my opinion, as long as liver, blood pancakes, and 100-milligram iron tablets are sold in supermarkets and no one calculates the accumulated amounts from them.
People take these iron tablets and vitamins exceeding daily recommendations (1000 milligrams C and 100 micrograms D, names like Super D-vitamin) purely by gut feeling for general fatigue. These are sold in supermarkets to everyone. Also vitamin A, which is fat-soluble, i.e., accumulative.
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This is a good example of how soleiin can be compared and is compared to an iron tablet. When buying an iron tablet, one gets an iron tablet. When buying a âprotein barâ or an ice cream or similar portion containing 30 g of soleiin, equivalent to 20 g of protein, one actually gets an iron tabletâs worth of iron. There is a contradiction, and it must be evaluated by consumer/health authorities if self-control does not work. Thatâs why I suggested a warning letter for consumer sales of soleiin. There are certainly tens of times more people suffering from iron deficiency than those getting organ damage from excess iron, but that does not absolve responsibilities towards those at risk.
What about vitamiinit?
And it is not justified to look at everything through rose-tinted glasses.
What kind of recommendations are there for doses??
Yes, and apparently fertilizers are no longer needed, and protein is supposedly created from air, according to Solar Foodsâ and Fazerâs claimsâŠ
Fazer:
- SoleinÂź is a new protein produced from air. Behind it is the Finnish food technology company Solar Foods.
Indeed, that nutrient solution, or âfertilizer,â which means a source of minerals and nitrogen, contains all sorts of things that are certainly not taken from the air.
Where does the energy come from, especially for ammonium hydroxide and potassium and sodium phosphate salt in current production? The amount of vanadium is small, but it is complex to produce as a pure substance from mining. Then also zinc, calcium, manganese, copper, boron, cobalt, and nickel. Out of thin air? Nope.
Is this still true today?:
Now, come forward from Fazerâs or Solarâs side to defend your claims, tell us, for example, how much total iron there is in soleiin, of which you would like only a little to be absorbed. Not the â128 mg /100 gâ but the amount that probably exceeds 1000 mg, i.e., the amount that is part of the 3000-5000 mg total mineral content you declare. Solar, at least, has obligations as a listed company to the market/investors, and Fazer to consumers.
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Here are Thomasâs comments on Solar Foodsâ CEO change. 
The CEO change seems like a logical decision as Solar Foods transitions from the product development phase to the commercialization phase, which requires different expertise from the CEO. Jokelaâs background in brand businesses and extensive experience in scaling international operations make him, in our view, a suitable choice on paper for the groupâs current development stage.
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Solar Foods dropped 12.6% yesterday. I couldnât find the drivers offhand. Whatâs behind this?
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Letâs record yesterdayâs, in my opinion, significant news for posterity. Solar Foodsâ closing price yesterday, after the news, was 3.435 euros when the stock exchange closed.
Press release level news, no paywall.
Solar Foods has initiated the pre-engineering of its first industrial-scale SoleinÂź production facility, a significant step towards commercially viable production scale. The development of Factory 02 is planned to proceed according to a phased investment plan, with the goal of commencing the first phase of production in 2028.
My comment:
Although the news is positive and, if realized, will lead to significant revenue growth, the waiting period is quite long from an investorâs perspective.
- first, Factory 02 is planned
- the actual decision on construction (which will be carried out in 3 different phases) will be made in 2026
- The construction itself will be carried out in three different phases, so that the first scaling phase of Factory 02âs production begins in 2028
- Construction and scaling continue, with the second phase of production starting in 2029 and the third in 2030.
So, if all goes well, increased revenue figures from the first scaling phase will be reported in the spring of 2029. Thatâs a very long time from the perspective of a busy investor, and it offers a significant opportunity for the stock price to really languish this year and next. Good buying opportunities for the stock will probably arise.Letâs hope the plans materialize; I will follow with interest.
I do not own Solar Foods shares, and this post does not contain investment advice.
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Here are Thomasâs preliminary comments as Solar Foods reports its H2 results on Thursday at 9:00 AM.
Due to the companyâs early development stage, it is futile to expect significant revenue, and our attention will focus on comments regarding the progress of Soleinâs commercialization in the US market and the development of the balance sheet position. The review period has been eventful: the company launched Solein in the US, published a new strategy and financial targets in connection with its Capital Markets Day, and listed on the Helsinki Stock Exchange.
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Here are Thomasâs comments on Solar Foodsâ received funding.
The funding received by Solar Foods was not a surprise to us, considering the progress related to the commercialization of Solein. From an investorâs perspective, itâs good to note that the funding is related to the already known EUR 110 million IPCEI (Important Project of European Interest) and therefore it is not a new source of funding, and our own forecasts assume the full utilization of the entire notification. However, the confirmation of funding for the new portion and the extension of the first phase of the project by one year until the end of 2026 is positive.
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A small correction to this. I assumed the company would publish its earnings report at 9 AM as last time, but the invitation to the press conference stated that the interim report would be published around 12:30 PM. Luckily, we didnât do an earnings live stream 
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Thomas has made a new company report on Solar Foods.
Solar Foodsâ H2 figures generally fell short of our forecasts as revenue decreased from H1 levels and the cost structure was heavier than expected. Driven by weaker-than-anticipated figures and subdued sales news flow, we have cut our short-term forecasts in particular. With current limited visibility into the funding sources for the investments required during the strategy period, the stockâs risks, considering the financing risk, outweigh the long-term potential.
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