Crypto-related stocks, ETFs, and other alternative investments

[Antti_Hyppanen]

Perhaps a dedicated topic for alternative investment targets would fit here, as there are quite a few nowadays. Crypto-related stocks, funds, ETFs, trackers, etc. I could imagine these being of even more interest on this forum than just cryptocurrencies themselves. I personally follow at least Coinbase and Microstrategy stocks and also post about ETFs.

Let’s open a discussion with an investment opportunity like this, which I came across on Henry Brade’s X. Henry Brade is the founder of Coinmotion, and Coinmotion is Finland’s largest & most well-known cryptocurrency trading platform. Henry is also one of Finland’s most well-known Bitcoin figures.

\u003e Now there’s an interesting case on Invesdor. E-Heat Oy (formerly Coinseeker Oy) is raising funding for building data centers that produce waste heat. Cryptocurrency miners are one of their key customer groups. Coinmotion Oy has invested in the company previously, and I am now personally participating in this round. I see great potential in Finland for efficient waste heat-producing data centers.
\u003e
\u003e Rahoituskierros: E-Heat Oy

Disclaimer: I am not an investor in the project myself, nor am I involved in it in any way.

[Antti_Hyppanen]

Another significant step in crypto investing was taken in the United States this week as the first Ethereum ETF products were brought to market. As many as nine Ethereum ETFs became available for trading on Monday, some of which are 100% Ethereum and some implemented with an ETH + BTC strategy.

Trading volumes were still low, which is not surprising at the bottom of a bear market.
https://twitter.com/EricBalchunas/status/1708865693481836849

The United States is the world’s leading economic power, but the attitude of the country’s regulators (and the lack of regulation) has slowed down the development of the derivatives market.

The now-released ETFs are futures-based. Similarly, all Bitcoin ETFs in the United States are futures-based. Investors are currently salivating over the launch of a spot Bitcoin ETF, which would be the option preferred and desired by investors.

So-called traditional Bitcoin investors also hope for a spot ETF on the market, as its popularity would naturally have a direct impact on the price of Bitcoin as well.

Attempts to launch a spot Bitcoin ETF in the United States have been ongoing for ten years. The SEC has rejected all applications so far. The situation changed completely during Midsummer week, when Blackrock filed its application.

Blackrock is generally believed to get its application approved, and in its wake, half a dozen competing spot ETFs will (likely) also be approved. And, as a result, spot Ethereum ETF products will likely also enter the market.

[Antti_Hyppanen]

Microstrategy’s CEO Michael Saylor was a completely unknown name, at least to crypto investors, just 4-5 years ago. In the early 2010s, he was even a Bitcoin critic. Saylor became the scene’s biggest celebrity in the fall of 2020 when he bought $250 million worth of bitcoin for the balance sheet of his public company, Microstrategy.

By the end of 2020, Saylor had already bought over a billion dollars’ worth of bitcoin, and the man has continued on the same path ever since. Today, Saylor is no longer the CEO of Microstrategy, but he is still responsible for the Bitcoin strategy.

In recent years, Saylor has become a kind of Bitcoin ambassador, especially towards the institutional world. He has also earned the admiration of Bitcoin maximalists and has been interviewed hundreds of times.

“Put your money where your mouth is” is a saying that applies to Saylor. This is something I also appreciate in his actions. “Talk is cheap,” as they say. It’s easy to paint pictures of the future, but it’s another thing to put your own and your company’s wealth into that vision. And we’re not talking about small sums.

Saylor has bought 158,245 bitcoins for his company’s balance sheet using both his own and borrowed money for approximately $4.8 billion (purchase history: Strategy - Bitcoin Treasury Holdings & Analysis). The market value of the Bitcoin purchases is now about the same size as the entire company’s market capitalization.

Microstrategy is originally a “business intelligence” firm, which still has its legacy business. However, the market value of the bitcoins is so large that the company’s share price has started to correlate very strongly with Bitcoin.

Because Microstrategy is a public company, many investors have used it as a proxy for owning Bitcoin. MSTR is like a spot Bitcoin ETF.

If you’re looking for alternative ways to invest in Bitcoin, Microstrategy is certainly not the worst one. At least Saylor’s strategy is clear: they will continue to buy bitcoins in the future, and the firm surely won’t sell a single bit of coin for the next hundred years. How many other firms could you say the same about? For example, Tesla has already sold most of its bitcoins.

The risk in this setup relates to Microstrategy’s loans. When the Bitcoin price was bottoming out in 2022, there was speculation about whether a drop to around 10K would cause problems for Microstrategy. If I remember correctly, problems would have only arisen around 3-4K.

The best option is always to buy real bitcoins. However, if you want a good proxy on the stock market side, Microstrategy is one popular option.

Edit: forgot to mention the latest purchase from the end of September, nearly 150 million dollars.

https://twitter.com/saylor/status/1706278284651077714

[Antti_Hyppanen]

A Spot Bitcoin ETF is all but finalized in the United States.

https://twitter.com/EricBalchunas/status/1716529570759704832

[Bjorninen]

Has anyone looked into Yield Farming, NFT, and DeFi Liquidity Pool activities taking place on Binance (or at least in Binance’s name) via Trust Wallet?

Is it some shady scam or a completely legitimate system? Is anyone here involved in it?

If it’s an obvious scam, I’d like to hear about that as well.

[kkkk]

Well, there have been reasons to be a bit skeptical about Binance’s offering before, and today’s news certainly doesn’t improve the situation…
https://www.wsj.com/finance/currencies/binance-ceo-changpeng-zhao-step-down-plead-guilty-01f72a40

[Antti_Hyppanen]

@Bjorninen

Is anyone familiar with the Yield Farming, NFT, DeFi Liquidity Pool Trust Wallet activities occurring on Binance (or at least in Binance’s name)?

Is that some shady scam or a completely legitimate system? Is anyone involved in that?

If it’s an obvious scam, I’d like to hear about that too.

These are all 100% scams that exploit the Binance brand. In addition, Trust Wallet, Exodus, and other companies in the industry are used, among others. Binance is, of course, the largest and best-known, so it’s a favorite for scammers.

I have very clear advice regarding this: any contact you receive from a stranger online related to investing or cryptos is always a scam.

[Bjorninen]

So, this is about a WhatsApp group chat that I haven’t specifically joined, nor have I shared my phone number on any shady websites (especially regarding crypto), so it’s unclear why I ended up on that list. I haven’t really had time to read it yet, but I got a very sketchy impression of it.

[Antti_Hyppanen]

@Bjorninen

So, this is about a WhatsApp group chat that I haven’t joined voluntarily, nor have I shared my phone number on any shady websites (especially crypto-related ones), so it’s unclear how I ended up on that list. I haven’t really had time to read it, but it gave off a very sketchy vibe.

I know people who have been added to these WhatsApp groups, and there’s talk about them in Facebook discussions as well. As mentioned, they are all complete scams and have nothing to do with Binance.

I can’t say how the scammers pick their targets, but be prepared to receive many more contacts now that you’re on the list. I personally get messages on pretty much every channel at regular intervals.

[Aleksiron]

You can definitely tell from those “Binance Academy” group messages that they’re generated by a poor AI.

[Mark_Renton]

Watcher.Guru

[Pollux]

Well, now that fits like a glove.. it’s HODL ! Still waiting for approval, of course..

[Wallet_Nahlroos]

Virtune crypto index ETP

I spotted this ad on Boomerbook. It includes the 10 largest cryptocurrencies weighted by market cap in the form of an index tracker. Now available through Nordnet. Thoughts on this? @KalleH you probably have some info and a view on the matter.

[KalleH]

@Wallet_Nahlroos

Includes the 10 largest market-cap weighted cryptocurrencies in the form of an index tracker.

That ETF seems to be missing Solana, Binance Coin, Cardano, Ripple, Avalanche, Dogecoin, and Tron.
So 3/10 of the top ten. Personally, I’ve never been into trackers.

A word of warning: if you start feeling FOMO about cryptos even if you’ve never followed them, for me that has been a sign of a (local) peak twice already. I’ve bought at the absolute top twice, after which they’ve come down 70-80%.
Now I’m better prepared for the situation and I’m already on the selling side.

[Wallet_Nahlroos]

@KalleH

Just a warning that if you start feeling FOMO about cryptos even though you’ve never followed them, for me, that has twice been a sign of a (local) top.

I’ve never felt crypto FOMO precisely because I haven’t found a diversified “index” product. I can’t be bothered to look into this field more closely when I have more interesting hobbies. If some index ETP/ETF could be found for this, I suppose I could put a small 1-3% of my portfolio into it.

That tracker rebalances holdings monthly, so there is quite a bit of turnover in the holdings. There were other criteria too, such as a minimum market cap of 500 million USD and a daily trading volume of at least 20 million USD. I wonder if that’s the reason some of the most popular cryptos are missing from the holdings.

I wish I’d found this product when bitcoin was around 18k€ a few months ago; oh well, let’s put it on the watchlist and wait for the next crypto winter.

[Antti_Hyppanen]

An analytics firm claims that the SEC will reject all ETF applications, and this has caused Bitcoin’s price to drop. In my opinion, nothing points to this.

• Matrixport analyst Markus Thielen said the Securities and Exchange Commission will likely reject all bitcoin spot ETF proposals this month.
• Thielen argued the applications still fall short of a critical requirement that must be met before the SEC can approve them.

https://www.theblock.co/post/270125/sec-will-reject-all-bitcoin-spot-etfs-in-january-says-matrixport-analyst

[Antti_Hyppanen]

Quite a bit of commotion regarding the ETF approval. A week ago, the market was manipulated with the bs analysis mentioned in the post above. Last night, meanwhile, the SEC’s X account was hijacked, and someone made a post about the ETF approval.

https://twitter.com/SECGov/status/1744837121406349714

This has naturally sparked conspiracy theories, but X has also confirmed that the SEC did not have 2FA enabled on their account.

It inevitably raises the question that if the account was truly hijacked and someone wanted to manipulate the market, an ETF rejection message would have caused much more damage.

One way or another, today this months-long speculation should, by all logic, come to an end.

[Antti_Hyppanen]

The excitement is building! We should have confirmation by midnight (Finnish time).

https://twitter.com/EricBalchunas/status/1745059713224454248

[Pollux]

Here we go soon.. or maybe not..

[Hermit]

Sorry if this topic has already been covered many times, but now that it looks like those Bitcoin ETFs might be approved soon, I wonder how they will be made available for sale in Finland? Is it possible that at some point they will be available even through Finnish brokers?