Inderes Oyj - "The company belongs to everyone"

[Sijoittaja-alokas]

Tässä on SEBin ajatuksest Inderesin pääomamarkkinapäiviltä.

Inderes’ key CMD message was that based on the first years’ experience from the Swedish market, the go-to-market strategy is reshaped. The company has now three units and each unit has a focused strategy for international growth acceleration. Inderes leans to its unique and holistic offering made to serve listed companies’ IR needs. To us, the upside in the case requires success in internationalisation, while the solid home market foundation limits the downside.

Inderes Group - International expansion 2.0 - SEB

[Passi]

Thanks to the Inderes team for the clear cmd and through this also to Mikael for the captivating and admirably honest story of the book.

The plans for Analysis and Events look like a tough nut to crack; let’s continue refining the offering and gtm in the current target markets.

The software side and its positioning are causing thought. The goals and sales of Analysis and Events are targeted at the Nordics. Instead, selected markets across Europe are seen as the TAM for software. In this regard, a few questions for the company representatives:

1. Does the value proposition and sales success of Software (e.g., in Germany or another European country) require localized Analysis and Events offerings behind it? Or does the software team have free rein and the prerequisites to succeed in markets where Inderes has no other presence, and which the software team sees as most fertile purely from the perspective of the software business (sales channels, local IR infrastructure and regulation, competition, etc.)?

2. Can the IR Suite (Videosync, AGM, IR pages, IR distribution) be customized during the strategy period for the most potential markets in Europe, or is it already clear that certain countries/markets are no-go due to various reasons?

3. If there is demand for the Videosync product from industries outside IR and globally, will the product continue to be sold and lightly customized for these needs, or will the focus in the future, in accordance with the group’s strategy, be purely on IR?

With a moderate annual growth of 700 keur and 25% EBITA, the software side alone will be more valuable than the current Inderes by 2030. In my dreams

[Mikael_Rautanen]

Answering here to rest of the questions on CMD chat that did not get covered (in Eglish as there was lot of non-Finnish speaking audience as well)

Indepinvestor

Q: Is ”great instead of big” goal still valid?

A: Yes the three eternal targets are still in place.

Alessandro

Q: Is there not an intrinsic conflict of interest between IR services and research coverage. Or put it differently how can you claim research is independent.

A: Yes there is intrinsic conflict of interest also in our research model, both direct in research as it gets paid by the covered company and indirect from other IR products. We must earn the indepence every day from the investors, investors are the ones who can claim wether we are independent or not. Losing customers occasionally due to indepence is part of this business. In general our clients perfectly understand and also respect the independence of an equity analyst and also demand this from us. I also recall a few cases when customer might have terminated research contract but purchased other products - companies still want to do good IR.

ebit?

Q: When the companies in Sweden were acquired their profitability was over 20 %. How much is it now?

A: We look at Events as one business, last year ebita-% was 9% for the whole Events.
This business can easily do over 20% when two conditions are met: 1) we are in pandemic times with a hot booming market and 2) we do only high volume of simple online productions.

In our strategy we are looking to scale the acquired business from a small webcasting/audiocasting operation into an IR focused events agency, just like we’ve done in Finland. This means significantly higher average prices, better position in value chain, differentiating positioning against global competitors, but lower margins as bigger tailored productions come with more service cost and less scalable elements. This is why we said mature stage ebita-% to be at 10-15% level, which is a good level for any events agency. We believe also the chosen strategy creates more value growth and has better moat than staying only in the low-price & high volume product category (we are also seeking growth from this category, but the growth opportunity is in expansion in the value chain).

Denmark Hockey Team

Q: How HCA is planning to get back on growth track? What products will lead the way?

A: HCA grew over 20% last year on a declining market. Growth is driven by diversification of the offering, such as Inderes products and their entrance to First North certified advisory.

realismi
Q: why are you talking about expanding global while you have not even succeeded in Sweden and Denmark?

A: I think aiming to be the best in the world in what you do is a good goal for any company. We enjoy setting the bar high, getting ourselves in trouble and taking on challenges most don’t believe we could ever achieve. It is often a question of what time perspective you take.

[Mikael_Rautanen]

More questions from @Passi!

@Passi

Does the value proposition of software and sales success (e.g., in Germany or another European country) require localized Analysis and Events offerings behind them? Or does the software team have a free hand and the prerequisites to succeed in markets where Inderes has no other presence and which the software team sees as most fruitful purely from the software business perspective (sales channels, local IR infrastructure and regulation, competition, etc.)?

It does not require Analysis and Events offerings. Regarding the software business, international markets must be examined and explored with a more open mind, looking for markets with inefficient competition, and a new market can be entered even with a point solution. Videosync is the most scalable of these; in principle, it can be delivered anywhere in the world without much need for localization. For other products, especially in the press release distribution system, more localization is needed for regulation and local market practices. Based on experiences in Finland, Sweden, and Denmark, it easily takes a year to clarify the market and localize, a second year for pilots and the first sales round (long sales cycles), and from the third year onwards, business starts to become tangible to some extent. The so-called entry barrier is quite high for all new entrants; one must carefully assess where to start. This business is not suitable for an impatient nature. Of course, we must constantly look for faster and more efficient market entry models.

@Passi

Can the IR Suite (Videosync, AGM, IR pages, IR distribution) be customized during the strategy period for the most potential markets in Europe, or is it already clear that certain countries/markets are a no-go due to various reasons?

Nothing has been explicitly ruled out, but in all honesty, no proper in-depth market research has been conducted beyond the Nordic countries. Regarding Videosync, the European landscape for event / IR event agencies is quite well known.

@Passi

If there is demand for the Videosync product from sectors outside IR and globally, will the product continue to be sold and lightly customized for these needs, or will the focus in the future, in line with the group’s strategy, be purely on IR?

There would be a huge global market here, but it faces a quite different competitive landscape… starting from Zoom and Microsoft, as well as large players specializing in event platforms. During the pandemic, online event platforms saw a massive wave of investment from venture capital, leading to increased competition, and then many players collapsed in the post-COVID hangover. Our idea has been to find the sharp niche in this market where we are the best in the world. IR is thus an obvious choice. And we know the event platforms in this IR field quite well globally, and we can say with good confidence that our product is the best in the world. Entry with an IR focus, but if it opens doors for sales to other communications, as sometimes happens (Enterprise-level customers often use some platform), we will certainly expand our customer base this way if there is demand. There are no plans for our own sales organization for segments outside IR.

[Tomi_Valkeajarvi]

We’ve made it a habit to conduct a community survey once a year, and now it’s time again to give us your feedback! With a bit of luck, you can also win Inderes Premium for a year (value: 200€) or a surprise package sent by mail (value: priceless)!

Vastaa Inderesin yhteisökyselyyn

[_TeemuHinkula]

The community survey is also advertised in the new Life in the Committee blog post.

In the text, I pondered whether Inderes’ valuation could start to be considered in a @Sauli_Vilen-like manner through a sum-of-the-parts approach with the new strategy. Passi already touched upon this issue above.

@Passi

With a moderate 700k EUR annual growth and 25% EBITA, the software side alone will be more valuable in 2030 than the current Inderes.

I did not give my own estimate in the text, but perhaps someone else dares to comment.

Elämää toimikunnassa – Osa 2 | Osia ja summia - Inderes

[Pohjolan_Eka]

Inderes has once again published its (almost annual) Playbook update:

Inderesin tuorein Playbook

[Tuulikki_Rautiainen]

Yes, we released an updated version, thanks for bringing it up here! The previous one was made 2.5 years ago, before acquisitions, strategy updates, brand renewal, and other development phases of the company.

If any questions arise here in the community about the company’s culture, operating model, or generally about us as an employer, please post them here or directly to me. Let’s see if this could lead to a podcast in the autumn.

[NukkeNukuttaja]

Inderes’ May revenue figures and @Mikael_Rautanen’s compiled explanations. There has been a lot of anticipatory selling pressure on the stock before the figures: Inderesin liikevaihto laski 12 prosenttia toukokuussa 2025 | Kauppalehti

Inderes’ revenue decreased by 12 percent in May 2025, totaling 1.6 (1.9) million euros
CEO Mikael Rautanen:

“The decrease in revenue came entirely from the event business, where revenue declined due to project timing between May and June, strong comparative period project sales, and a decrease in revenue from the Swedish event business.”

Monthly Revenue Development (million euros)

Month	2025	2024	Change
January	1.1	1.0	11 %
February	1.8	1.7	0 %
March	2.4	2.3	7 %
April	2.4	2.2	8 %
May	1.6	1.9	-12 %

Quick calculation shows we are now only 0.2 million ahead of last year’s revenue figures (rounding has not been taken into account, as it is not available, editor’s note).

[Sijoittaja-alokas]

Tässä on SEBin pikakommentit Inderesin toukokuusta.

Inderes reported weak monthly sales data for May, with a decline of 12%. Although this owes partly to the timing of certain events (from May to June) our first read is that May-June sales are likely to fall somewhat short of our current estimates.

Inderes Group - May sales below last year's and our estimate - SEB

[Mikael_Rautanen]

A bit of a challenge with monthly reporting is that the timing of project deals still significantly sways individual months. Last year in Q2, April was +33%, May +15%, and June -9% - individual months give quite different messages. But overall, it still feels like there is more benefit from this. It improves transparency, and with comments, things can be contextualized to some extent, as well as facilitating internal transparency when the sales report can be shared with the whole team monthly with the announcement.

Now in May, our Swedish event business went south, as it did in Q1, meaning that part is not improved by monthly fluctuations; the Q1 report detailed this and the measures taken. Otherwise, timing factors.

[Hawkmountdiver]

@Mikael_Rautanen

Now in May, our event side in Sweden went under, just like in Q1, so that part is not explained away by monthly fluctuations. The Q1 report detailed this and the measures taken. Otherwise, these are timing factors.

Following from the sidelines how challenging sales are in Sweden, have the root causes of the issues been properly addressed? Sales can sometimes be quite simple: If you don’t know what you’re doing, call a potential customer. Nowadays, various digital marketing setups are very fashionable, but as an old-school person, I believe more in using the phone.

I might be completely off with my comments, but those export efforts look a bit worrying from an old salesman’s perspective. It feels like revenue is almost stagnant and we’re banging our heads against a wall. Is it possible that on Inderes’ side, this sales aspect is being overthought in one way or another? Regards, “back to basics”

[Samtheman2]

I have to simplify a bit when trying to frame my concerns as questions. The book ‘Kurinalainen anarkia’ (Disciplined Anarchy) from 2023 states the following (e-book pp. 90-91):

“When Rautanen goes to the analysts’ ninth floor, he is sometimes asked how analysis sales are going in Sweden and if they could somehow help. The choice of words reflects a willingness to cooperate and that people are interested in the news from Inderes’ new local department, but the Swedish operations are not yet sufficiently perceived as part of Inderes. If they were, Rautanen would go to the ninth floor to hear from the analysts how analysis sales are really going in Sweden.”

Were the Swedish operations not perceived as part of Inderes in 2023 because of shortcomings in the Playbook?

In the recent version 4: “Teams decide their working practices. Teams form and review their own working agreement yearly, where they agree on things like office days, remote work, shared practices and meetings.”

Does the updated Playbook help perceive Sweden as part of Inderes and achieve international goals?

I confess that I have not read versions 1-3.

Edit. additional question. In 2023, the analysts included employee-owners, and the sales team was certainly not prevented from contacting the analysts on the 9th floor.

As an external shareholder, can I trust that Inderes engages in cross-team collaboration because a) it’s the most employee-owned company on the Helsinki Stock Exchange or b) the Playbook has been created? If both cannot be chosen.

[Tuulikki_Rautiainen]

Thank you for your thoughts and questions! As I understand it, you are considering the role of the playbook and employee ownership in solving internationalization challenges, for example, in sales.

The playbook reflects our company’s principles and creates a common tone for how we organize ourselves. Your example of agreeing on team working practices is good. According to the playbook, teams have the power and responsibility in this. Internally, we also have a more detailed discussion model to support this, which teams can apply when agreeing on practices (work processes, tools, times, places, …). Teams can also use some other broader or narrower model. The most important thing is that teams regularly discuss how work is done.

Taking over a new market, recruiting and developing a team, and expanding from one market to several is time-consuming. I myself lived in Stockholm the autumn before last, and I didn’t find a magic button to press! One step at a time. Regarding employee ownership, I interpret it to mean that we are committed to the matter. Not that job changes don’t happen regularly with us, but the team believes that we will succeed in connecting investors and companies internationally, across different business areas.

From the perspective of people and culture, this requires a lot of experimentation and (un)success, workshops, market understanding, updating working methods, training, business trips, and international exchanges. Good leadership for us includes the ability to view things broadly, breaking team boundaries and looking further ahead than just the immediate future. The playbook creates a common value base and working harmony for all activities. Concreteness emerges in everyday life, as teams’ own adaptations. We don’t even try to capture all of that in a single company-wide culture handbook.

I leave the interpretations of author Launis’s and Mikael’s book to them and to all of us readers.

[Sijoittaja-alokas]

@studentcoverage_team has done a new analysis after Inderes’ May figures.

*Inderes reported May 2025 revenue decreased by 12% from the comparison period to EUR 1.6 million (EUR 1.9M). According to the company’s comments, the decrease was entirely due to the weak development of the event business, where volumes clearly fell short of expectations due to project timing and a decrease in revenue from the Swedish business. Timing factors particularly weighed on Finnish projects, while in Sweden, the challenges appear structural, and development remained weak, similar to Q1.

Tapahtumaliiketoiminta painoi toukokuun liikevaihtoa - Inderes

[Hawkmountdiver]

@Tuulikki_Rautiainen

time-consuming. I myself also lived in Stockholm the autumn before last, and I didn’t find the magic button

That magic button is the green phone button. Based on my long sales experience, I can state that cold calls are, on average, underestimated.

[Hawkmountdiver]

@Tuulikki_Rautiainen

From the perspective of people and culture, this requires a lot of experimentation and (un)successful attempts, workshops, market understanding, updating working methods, training, business trips, and international exchanges from us. Good leadership for us includes the ability to examine things broadly, breaking team boundaries, and looking further than just the immediate future.

Probably so, but in my own life, I have noticed that sometimes it’s just good to go headlong into the wind. As a salesperson, I have always been allergic to various workshops and training sessions. However, soon they’ll be rid of me, retirement age is near. But I still wonder if there’s a danger of overthinking in all of this?

[Mikael_Rautanen]

This is how we view our situation when entering a new market (partly organically, partly through acquisition) as a slightly broader whole, where sales is one critical element. Greatly simplifying: finding a common clear direction, creating a strategy, building the right team committed to that strategy, putting the right people in the right roles, having the right products for the target market, etc. When these are in place, sales also have the best prerequisites for success. But as mentioned in the CMD, the acquisition integration has been difficult, and now bigger changes have been made to alter the rhythm. In essence, we should be proficient at this: we’ve previously acquired a webcasting firm and transformed it into an IR-focused event agency, multiplying both revenue and customer numbers (that was difficult too!). The new market simply adds a bit more difficulty, but the bar needs to be set higher.

Regarding sales, when the customer’s buyer is a publicly listed company’s IR department and the market is Sweden, sales heavily involve active public relations and networking. And I agree, it also requires proactivity in picking up the phone, deep IR expertise, local market knowledge, and networking skills. We are already quite proficient at this and possess strong local expertise. In the event business, this year has gone quite well in terms of new logos. The problem lies more with project sales (we’re not growing within existing clients, fewer large events) and customer churn.

Greetings from the plane from Stockholm, discussing these very themes with the team

[Samtheman2]

Thank you for the answer, you understood my thoughts exactly. I understand the significance of the Playbook better now.

And to Playbook page 38

[Talouskukkaro]

[/quote]
Probably so, but in my own life, I have found that sometimes it’s just good to go headlong into the wind. As a salesperson, I have always been allergic to various workshops and training sessions. Soon enough, they’ll be rid of me anyway, retirement age is near. But I still wonder, is there a danger of overthinking in all of this?
[/quote]

Sales can be simple, but I guess your experience selling to Sweden is not particularly comprehensive. That market is one of the most challenging, as can be seen, for example, from the struggles of several Helsinki stock exchange companies in our western neighbor. My understanding is that the Swedish market often serves as a testing ground for non-European players; if a product/company succeeds there, it is also possible to achieve success elsewhere in Europe.

The methods named by Tuulikki and Mikael are exactly what entering that market requires. Fortunately, Inderes has expertise in operating in Sweden on its board, so now we just have to keep adjusting, turning, and focusing.