Car - A brake on getting rich?

How difficult is the process to claim VAT back from Germany?

Generally, they are distributed by the seller when agreed upon in advance; applying from the Finanzamt (tax authority) is more laborious, and the deadline is, if I remember correctly, 9 months. About 10 years ago, one could buy VAT-free without a deposit, but not anymore.

1 Like

An alternative to the E-golf could be the Mazda MX-30. I recommend checking it out if you want a good city car.

1 Like

I checked out that mx30 myself back in the day. IMO, ultimately the only thing that stood out positively in the car was the rear doors. Range, space, and charging speed were, frankly, weak.

Don’t Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe also fall into that price range among used electric vehicles? I’m not sure about the space compared to a Golf, though.

This. Where were the much-talked-about warranties and defect liabilities hiding? A used car always has the potential for problems, and with more electric new cars, even bankruptcy, so insurance (full-service leasing) that one doesn’t have to pay is truly welcome. I have made as precise calculations as possible for my own use without having access to the internal information of the glass palace, and the cost of this peace-of-mind insurance comes to about 125€/month, which I pay more for leasing compared to ownership. I have already presented the justifications earlier in the thread and will not start repeating them (I tried to open a new thread then purely to highlight leasing, but it was forcibly merged into this thread where everything car-related is off-topic from investing and therefore condemned).

You should have looked more closely, not just peeked :slight_smile:
The electronic implementation in Mazda is a bit old-fashioned, that’s absolutely true. On the other side of the coin is extreme reliability. And the rear door solution you praised is actually quite tricky.

Anyway, you can create a bad impression of a car by only criticizing some of its features.
Weaknesses can be found in all cars. The MX-30 is a city car and a very good one at that.
Within just one year, I’ve test-driven at least 50 different cars and I’m generally into cars. So I have some feel for evaluating car features.

Indeed, the manufacturer and importer bore the liability for defects there, but the dealership then decided to uphold the reputation of used car dealers. But, it resulted in a surprising and significant cost for me.

With my driving, one could get a 6-year maintenance contract for a new Kodiaq for 71e/month. Over that period, there would be savings of just under 3900e compared to the price of your peace of mind insurance. Conversely, with leasing, one would have a newer car in the later comparison years if desired, so a direct one-to-one comparison cannot be made here either.

Probably, a new car with a maintenance contract is cheaper than leasing, but this requires that the value of the purchased car does not drop at an alarming rate.

Let’s assume that the car’s value decreases by an average of 15% per year in the first few years, you pay 5% for financing, plus a maintenance contract. Then, on top of that, the portion of repayments for which an alternative “return” might be available. It might be that leasing is more expensive for you, but it’s certainly not for everyone, or even necessarily likely to be, with car model, mileage, contract length, leasing price, etc., etc., as variables.

Of course, with leasing, you can’t be picky; if you want a very specific model with certain features and equipment, you should forget about leasing immediately. If you just want a carefree ride without being picky, affordable options are constantly available.

That financing is a bit on the high side. New car interest rates seem to be mostly 0-3 percent. Some might have a bit extra in monthly fees, etc., but there are also interest-free options.

In that case, you really have to calculate carefully so that Kamux’s/Saka’s six percent interest rates don’t end up being more expensive, even if the new car’s so-called expensive first kilometers have already been driven.

Let’s just assume that; similarly, we can also assume that the capital saved from that car was used to buy Talvivaara shares.

That’s why I wrote that “but this requires that the value of the car one buys doesn’t drop at an absolutely terrible rate.”

If one gets financing below the market rate, one has practically paid the difference in interest rates for the product at the time of purchase. If Euribor is 2%, I don’t believe a car dealership can offer an unsecured loan below five percent, but this is just speculation.

2 Likes

Have you ever had any problems with reclaiming VAT, and are there any tips on what to particularly consider?

You shouldn’t directly compare a new car sold by an importer to a used car seller. Starting prices remain relatively stable, but sometimes there are campaigns for some cars.

Often, there might also be the company’s own financing institution in the background, so there are plenty of variables compared to Kamux (Kamux) and similar companies.

Last time, in the spring, I had to threaten the Mercedes dealership with a lawyer and late payment interest because it took almost 2 months to get the tax refund for the returned car. Even though all the documents were in order, they kept asking silly questions


1 Like

As an industry professional, I can say that interest rates below 3% are sponsored by someone, excluding short 1-2 month campaigns
 The purchase interest rate for a normal car dealership is currently nearly 4%


3 Likes

A lease car can become more affordable than owning in two ways. The depreciation you calculated is possible, but not the only truth. The price of more expensive cars indeed drops at an alarming rate, and the most alarming drop is for expensive cars with costly optional extras. When a new car costing 50-60 k€ is ticked with optional extras worth a new small car, the same car that cost 70-80 k€ new in Finland can be bought from Germany a couple of years later, registered in Finland, even as a diesel with car tax, for about half the new price, having driven about 50,000 km, and as an electric car having driven 20,000 km. From this, one can deduce that the person who bought the car new received an even slightly lower trade-in price.

On the other hand, nothing prevents diluting the expensive first years of a newly purchased car into a longer lifespan. The first year’s depreciation begins to disappear significantly after the first 10 years, and for a well-maintained combustion engine car, even 20 years is not a technical problem. You can also make owning a car affordable without compromise by buying a lightly used, like-new car for half the price of a new one.

For those realistically comparing buying such cars with their own money, either new or two years used, the cost of financing is not determined by the financing interest rate but by the return on one’s investment portfolio.

I, for one, do not keep the price of a Mercedes constantly in my account; instead, operating with a 100% equity weighting, I liquidate the car’s price from my portfolio already in the spring of the year when the car is decided to be replaced later in the summer.

The car’s requirement specification might be picky (as it is for us) or it might not be, and the difference between these cannot be seen from the final outcome of the choice. Family size and age, pets, and hobbies also limit the selection quite justifiably. What good is a car that cannot accommodate one’s family, dog, and hobbies, and whose towing capacity falls a ton short of the total weight of a frequently towed caravan, race car, horse, or boat trailer?

2 Likes

Quite a surprise that Mercedes accepts that, wouldn’t have accepted it back in the day.
Reportedly to support the more affordable end of the electric car selection, should suit many of the penny-pinchers on this forum too :wink:
just kidding.

1 Like

On the other hand, back then the Chinese didn’t own a fifth of MB. However, BYD doesn’t seem to be among the owners.

1 Like

Geely (e.g., the Smart venture) owns approx. 10% of MB. I don’t know what other Chinese companies own, but Geely is a direct competitor to BYD, which is why I was surprised. On the other hand, someone would still sell them in Finland.
Veho at least used to do what “Mother-Mercedes” “ordered,” but times are changing.

1 Like