What are Kankaala and Haapala doing? Everything for sale soon, Nyab style?
It’s probably a painful situation for them. Well, one has to be honest to succeed.
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The company’s share price has now roughly halved since this message from @Verneri_Pulkkinen, and the bull who was most vocal at the time has not logged into the forum (at least under that username) since November 20th.
Thanks to all the moderators involved for stopping the game back then.
(I have never had a position in this company, so I am commenting on this as a complete outsider)
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Is positive writing about Summa forbidden?
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In my opinion, it would be quite interesting to read positive comments about Summa, if those views were based on at least some rational arguments and facts.
I’ll take your second-to-last message as an example. You said that “the stock has been hammered down due to lack of evidence.” Well, after that, the price has halved again. What was the basis for the claim that the stock had been hammered down really low?
In the same message, you speculated about a possible deal with a NATO country and criticized views on its weak margin: “Claims of its possible weak profitability cannot be based on any facts at this stage, before numbers are known.” Which Summa subsidiary do you think could make deals with a good profit margin? We know the profitability of the tractor and ship business over a long period. Or was the idea that Summa would sell those drones, which it still doesn’t have in production, at a top margin?
On a couple of other financial forums, they are overcompensating. The last time a similar panic was on was when K2 opened up about his views on Summa as an investment in a Kauppalehti interview.
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Summa summarum. If any forum member is still considering investing in Summa, I would at least consider the following:
Does Summa Defence have competent and reliable company management?
Does Summa Defence have a reliable and convincing ownership base?
Is Summa Defence’s financial position on a stable footing?
Does Summa Defence have special expertise compared to its competitors?
Will Summa Defence reach the financial figures it previously announced this year?
Has Summa Defence’s new business (drones) started on schedule as promised?
Is Summa Defence’s stock reasonably priced?
My answer to all the above questions is no.
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Probably Summa Defence is suitable for what “surprisingly” many publicly traded companies operating in the domestic market are: to reduce capital gains taxes from sales profits coming in December 2026.
In the company of Summa Defence, there are at least companies that actually make a profit. It’s just a shame that these “analysts” gave a slightly too rosy picture of the domestic market’s future recovery, and consequently, even good companies were burdened with too high expectations.
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After the first quarter, the order book was reported to be 200 million euros, at the end of the second quarter 160 million euros, and at the end of the third quarter only 123 million euros.
The company’s estimate given in the spring for the current year’s revenue to fall within the range of 110–140 million euros decreased in the latest review to 90–110 million euros.
In the first three quarters of the year, total revenue accumulated to 66 million euros…
are these figures a bit contradictory: order books and total revenue.
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I’m following this from the sidelines. But it occurred to me that perhaps the drone was sold for that 200 million, but orders have been cancelled as buyers realized that the supplier’s credibility is on the level of Pena’s hot dog stand, which merely advertised and, above all, branded itself as Lockheed Martin.
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I guess what happened here is that a huge number of cutting-edge technology drones were going to be sold, but peace negotiations in Ukraine put the orders completely on ice. 
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Or maybe they tried to do a Tesla and kick the can down the road every quarter. But their ideas and storytellers were bad. Didn’t get the Tesla hype.
Now they should urgently announce that a SuMMA A.I. artificial intelligence is coming that fights automatically without humans. That it has already been negotiated with Tecnotree that they will do it and the Namibians will pay.
Still of the opinion that Summa is a bad scam attempt.
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I’m going to gamble on Summa at some point (though one can’t know for sure about the future).
I understand the scam argument, and I mean, they’ve really messed things up there, but I don’t believe it’s a complete scam. The idea is beautiful: we are stronger together. The fact is that there’s a desperate shortage in the defense industry, as it’s probably been run down for 30 years, and now we’re supposed to conjure something out of nothing. Well, this is exactly it. The vision is excellent, but the journey is hellishly long. Internal collaboration/transformation within the company is quite possible, and something can probably be produced. This is a complete startup, after all. Profits are probably at least 8 years away, even in theory. But someone has to develop this modern branch of weaponry. Whether it’s Summa, remains to be seen, but the good thing about these Summas and others is that you always get to watch from the sidelines when others are having a hard time, and then when it’s no longer possible, no matter what happens, and if things have progressed in the right direction then… Oh man, those are sweet spots. But a hell of a lot of things still need to happen before the stars align. But we’ll follow it.
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What more is there to it than grouping a bunch of mainly unprofitable companies into the same cluster? No synergies will arise from these, and a challenging business will become even more challenging due to group costs.
How does that relate to Summa’s products? Armament is not implemented by buying warehouses full of Western multi-purpose machines. Of course, the Finnish Defence Forces (PV) might continue to buy them, as they have done so far. But the PV buys a lot of everything from socks to firewood. And often the procurements are tendered in such a way that price is a key factor.
Not even drones are bought in large quantities for Western warehouses. But talking about them is theoretical, because Summa’s drone production is also theoretical.
It is not. Summa consists of companies, many of which have a very long history. Their business quality can therefore be seen over a long period. Lännen Tractors is a bankrupt company. Uudenkaupungin työvene produces a few percent operating profit, but at the same time has large investment debts. The share of other companies is much smaller. For example, IntLog, which seems high-quality, had a turnover of a couple of million and an operating profit of a couple of hundred thousand euros last year.
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Exactly, Summa is not a sum at the moment. And anyway, I said the idea is beautiful, you know, that good old “Let’s join forces!” nostalgia. Reality is far from this, but as I said, it’s possible that some merger will happen at some point.
Not at all. The current products are not interesting, but let’s calmly see what comes of the drone. It’s probably better to do it properly than to rush. If it even exists. But it’s possible that something will be done someday. As I said, quite a few stars need to align. There are a couple of stars already, that’s why I’m here. Summa is currently about a pile of 
.
Yeah, but think about this with common sense. They specifically have companies with a history of something completely different. Entrepreneurs see that their operations can be transformed into something else → practically a completely new company. If Valio started making medicines next week, wouldn’t that be a new business? I know it’s not a start-up in the sense of being newly founded, and I appreciate you pointing that out so no one gets the wrong idea. But it’s comparable when starting from scratch – and own capital and contributions are at stake.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Summa practically the parent company of all of these? What prevents driving the subsidiaries into bankruptcy, Summa would own the bankruptcy estate?
But indeed, I’m in no hurry with this. I’m just watching for signs in the sky and waiting patiently. I’ll follow when the gods command me to act, if it’s meant to be.
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This is not related to Summa in any way, but I think it describes well the sentiments in the more traditional defense industry.
Historical experiences strongly guide us to consider how much should be invested in production when defense budget cuts are “in any case” ahead in a time window relevant for the investment.
The idea that Summa would somehow be among the few winners in this market without a clear roadmap, investment plan, or even a vision for the company’s future – that idea, to put it mildly, seems to deviate from the mainstream.
If the situation is starting to be that insiders are already making an exit from this, then it certainly gives a bleak picture of the past year and a half’s work. But this is if; I have not gone through the owner lists myself, I mainly refer to the information above.
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It still is; in 2024, many suppliers indeed had their accounts frozen, and apparently, they still can’t really get their money from there. Not everything shows up in customer information; several small businesses wait politely and for a long time before resorting to collection.
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The balance sheet total is practically zero, and it cannot be defended in any way. Too bad.
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Well, it would take miracles for this to be worth investing in, but it’s easy to follow.
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So, were there indications of the main owners’ exit, are you referring to previous arrangements, blocks, or is there some other movement? I don’t expect any upside anymore, even though defense was supposed to be “the” hot market, but if this is a bubble for this group, then more downside will probably have to be taken as a hit to the groin.
With this company, that defence is more in the name than in the products.
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Well, one can say that NOW. I myself perceived this company’s marketing communication as very much defense industry-oriented, and that’s still how it is when one lands on the company’s website. Just defense equipment opportunities on land, sea, and air. The core of the strategy. Meriaura. The essence of the financing need.
Spring came, value melted, cash flow went ‘pulipuli’.
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I am only referring to the discussion held above from the past week, where it was noted that numerous key personnel had reduced their holdings. And one could certainly assume that there would also be some reason for lifting the insider transfer restrictions…
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