Politics Corner (Part 2)

Society
, , , ,
2156

Quote: But instead of Social Democracy, right-wing populism is the framework that unites him and many of his political allies in Europe. And within that group, he finds more resonance than among European Social Democratic parties.

I think I understand the logic you mean. However, terms are at least intended to influence, and in this context, it’s hard to understand how you or the Yle journalist link the right wing to racism or nationalism. I’ve been left with the impression that there is a conscious effort to create associations between the terms “right” and “left” and certain other concepts.

As I understand it, a significant portion of those extremist movements in Europe that are labeled “far-right” do not actually display right-wing principles in their political programs or their implemented policies. In these, I believe, state intervention in the markets (leftism), restricting the freedom of enterprise (leftism), and wiping one’s a*** with the market economy (leftism) are very prominent features. So, I do think the criticism regarding the way the Yle journalist describes the matter is justified.

In my opinion, the concept of a “left-wing populist” describes Fico well, with nationalism and racism as its inherent traits. Otherwise, we end up with the definition of a “Jewish Nazi,” as one old pedophile defined it :slight_smile:

7 Likes
2157

These are eternal themes. For example, the Finns Party has always been perceived as a right-wing populist party. Nowadays, the party is indeed economically quite right-wing, but in its early days under Soini, the party resembled left-leaning Social Democrats more. On the other hand, ideas about leaving the EU, a more closed society, etc., still linger in the background of the party’s line, which do not fit with liberal right-wing values. By definition, however, the party has always resembled a right-wing populist movement. In the early days, for instance, opposing equal rights for sexual minorities and fear-mongering on the subject played a strong role in the party. Nowadays, of course, that has taken a back seat and been replaced by anti-immigration sentiment. Anti-EU sentiment has always been an ideological cornerstone of the party in a more or less strong form.

In my opinion, Fico’s party does not fit the definition of left-wing populism. Instead, for example, Greece’s Syriza party has represented it strongly. And like right-wing populists, it has leaned strongly towards Putin.

When talking about these terms, I don’t think the “dirty words” are right-wing or left-wing, but rather populism and the “far-” prefix. A moderate right-winger or left-winger is roughly equally far from both extremes.

3 Likes
2158

I should never post here. It starts taking up too much time. Give me a ban! Anyway, that seems to be what the above is about. I started looking into the background of the researcher interviewed in the story. It strongly appears that the researcher is a left-leaning person. They have been, among other things, the editor-in-chief of Ydin magazine, after which the post has been held by Arja Alho (SDP). Before that, the editors-in-chief included Ilkka Taipale (SDP) and Erkki Tuomioja (SDP). All credit to the SDP for its achievements, as there likely are some, but in this story, it is glaringly obvious that mentioning the “club of comrades” in connection with Fico is avoided like the plague, and the whole thing is spun to make Fico out as unequivocally right-wing. On top of everything, the researcher suggests a link to the Vornanen case, which I would claim is quite difficult even for a researcher to prove true. The Finns Party (Persut) are certainly making fools of themselves big time, but they are hardly to blame for the shooting of this Fico, and the claim of a link is flimsy and, in my view, the researcher’s propaganda. It’s some strange, completely uncritical journalism to put on YLE’s website exactly what the SDP-loving researcher is blathering on about with foam at their mouth.

11 Likes
2159

And like right-wing populists, it has been strongly leaning towards Putin.

Definitions in politics are always vague, but by this definition, the old guard of the Social Democrats (Lipponen, Halonen, Tuomioja, Heinäluoma, etc.) and even the slightly newer guard of the Left Alliance are right-wing populists. As a simple person, I think it would just be clearer if socialists were categorized as the left, supporters of a minimal state as the right, and populists, regardless of their side, as people who offer easy “solutions” to complex problems without explaining why the solution works and who oppose everything else without justification, or by using the argument that some people are stupid.

14 Likes
2160

The researcher states, “Acceptance and idealization of political violence has been in the air across Europe. If you place the recent case of a Finnish Member of Parliament carrying a weapon in this context, it appears more serious and as part of the overall culture of violence.” And yes, the Vornanen case appears as part of the overall culture of violence. If even MPs walk around in public carrying a weapon, it is truly concerning. Of course, Vornanen’s antics are not political violence, unlike what was likely an internal score-settling within the Finns Party in the Pekka Kataja case.

If Yle wants to interview a university researcher specializing in populism, its job is to convey the interviewee’s view to the audience. The idea that a journalist should cut or edit the interviewee’s statements to align with someone else’s views is truly strange. It has nothing to do with good journalistic practice.

You didn’t get far enough in your research, however, to notice that Palonen resigned from the position of editor-in-chief of Ydin magazine after a fallout with the publisher’s board. Not that being the editor-in-chief of Ydin magazine would be any kind of sin. Personally, I don’t know Palonen’s party affiliation, or if there even is one, and I’m not interested. Every person has some kind of worldview, and most vote for some party. For very few does it cause problems in academic work.

1 Like
2161

And yes, the Vornanen case appears as part of the overall culture of violence.

Certainly that too, but isn’t it amazing that in this case, a link to the Finns Party (Persut) just happened to be found. It’s not like there’s any implication here that political violence and the Finns Party… this is practiced by both extremes, but I find it repulsive and particularly bad if it occurs in mainstream media.

If Yle wants to interview a university researcher specializing in populism, its job is to convey the interviewee’s view to the audience. The idea that a journalist should cut or edit the interviewee’s words to align with someone else’s views is truly bizarre. It has nothing to do with good journalistic practice.>

Shouldn’t a journalist edit the story, i.e., strive to report the matter impartially and not act as a propaganda platform? Aren’t opinion pieces a different thing from edited news stories?
Mind you, I have also wondered at the fact that media nowadays present product information provided by companies as news stories without any backgrounding. I’ve thought of it as journalistic laziness, but maybe I’m just old-fashioned.
I would have asked, just between the two of us, whether you find the story impartial, perspective-opening, and don’t you see any of the problems I mentioned in the story?

PS. your photo looks like Dmitry Peskov, speaking as an old conspiracy theorist … :slight_smile:

1 Like
2162

@Puomi, you took the words right out of my mouth, so to speak. I would add to what you wrote that YLE has a greater responsibility to strive for impartiality and stick to the facts. YLE is our common media, which we are all forced to pay taxes for.

4 Likes
2163

I don’t think it’s surprising. MPs from other parties haven’t been firing shots around town on their nights out at bars, and they certainly haven’t been proven to walk around town carrying a weapon. I don’t recall any other violent incidents or the like in recent history where a sitting MP was involved. Mauri Peltokangas (ps) probably only made a scene at a hot dog stand.

In that case, a researcher specializing specifically in populism was interviewed. Not a representative of some propaganda machine, unless one wants to label the academic world as such. It is not the media’s job to present the views of those who disagree with a university researcher in every single story. And I don’t even know what there would have been to debate. A single term? Of course, if there is a topic that is debatable, then for example A-Studio tends to gather, say, four people around a table, who can usually be divided into two camps based on their opinions.

Staff, turpentine!

And on that topic, Yle has stuck to the facts. You did not stick to the facts when criticizing the article, so be more precise. You reproached the researcher for using a term that he did not use. The concept of journalistic impartiality is also peculiar if every single matter required an opposing debater. Whose view would you have wanted to hear in that context, anyway?

Ps. Regarding terms, I think it’s more descriptive to speak of Vladimir Zhirinovsky as a right-wing populist or far-right than as a liberal democrat.

2 Likes
2164

By far the most established, comprehensive, and common definition of the right/left axis is based on economic views. A right-winger supports, among other things, free global trade, the market economy, and individual responsibility for one’s own life. Left-wingers support societal and state control in its various forms, with all its consequences. Almost every Finnish citizen who is even slightly inclined to think about economic matters positions themselves more or less clearly into one of the two camps.

At some point and in some context, the term “right” has been used to derive concepts such as right-wing populist, far-right, and radical right, which are generally perceived as very negative things. These terms are used to refer to, among others, Nazis, racists, and fascists.

Now, for example, ahead of the European elections, Finnish left-wing politicians such as Li Andersson and Antti Lindtman, and media outlets like Yle and Iltapaska, have on many occasions highlighted how the right is rearing its head in Europe. They include the far-right and similar groups as well as the economic right in their definition of “the right.” Thus, by equating the economic right with the aforementioned extremist movements, Yle, Andersson, and company quite directly (and obviously with a clear agenda) form the equation: right = far-right.

Coming from a politician, who is a political professional, such labeling—where more than half of the Finnish people are guilted and branded at least to some extent as Nazis—is, shall I say, populist and repugnant behavior. They certainly know better.

YLE could investigate the matter and publish an article on the subject. For example: “Does Nazism, fascism, and racism occur more among people in the higher or lower income brackets?” (I assume, then, that higher-income people are more often right-wing and lower-income people are left-wing.) It shouldn’t be insurmountable with YLE’s budget.

9 Likes
2165

Gearloose put it well. JuhaR, is that photo really Paukku? I wouldn’t have recognized him. There is definitely a lot of Peskov in him.

2166

Well, look at that. It seems the website article has been updated, and this has appeared at the end
image

This at least has been added

Fico’s roots are in left-wing populism, but nowadays he emphatically represents pro-Russian right-wing populism, Palonen says.

I should probably be satisfied now, and it seems Palonen too has at least to some extent said things in a more balanced way than what appeared from yesterday’s story. My apologies to those who felt distress because of my writing :upside_down_face:.

2167

This is simply because right-wing parties have traditionally faced significant challenges in accommodating both market liberalism and social liberalism within the same party. This phenomenon is repeated in classic right-wing parties, right-wing populists, and the far-right alike. In that respect, it is quite descriptive to lump them all together as “the right.” Their value base is, after all, largely the same.

1 Like
2168

The chairman of the Finns Party’s parliamentary group recently labeled 85% of Finns as communists. Or well, apparently all parliamentary parties except for the Finns Party are communists.

2169

I find it quite ironic how group discipline was the “great Satan” and the “cancer of democracy” for the Finns Party (PS) throughout their entire time in opposition. Now the “Iron Lady” is showing them who’s boss while the Christian Democrats (KD) are trying to keep their voters’ agenda alive even just a little bit.

2 Likes
2170

Well, this government has such a small majority in parliament that governing simply requires all coalition parties to act together as agreed. RKP was the kingmaker, and if RKP intends to stay in the government, it had better keep its word, which it gave to the others on a wide variety of issues when the government was being formed.

2171

@JuhaR What is your judgment of me after this post? Am I, for instance, a conspiracy theorist for starting to suspect that the researcher in the YLE article I previously brought up actually intended, with their interview, to reinforce the SDP’s election-strategic message—specifically targeted against the National Coalition Party (Kokoomus)—by scaring Finns with a far-right horror scenario if the National Coalition Party succeeds in the European elections? Several leading SDP figures are, right now today on Saturday, pushing a horror scenario that a victory for the National Coalition Party opens the gates to a dystopian far-right Europe.

The obvious nonsense of this SDP-leaning researcher might, of course, just be a coincidence in terms of timing, right?

Antti Lindtman on X: “Finland is at a crossroads in the June European elections, as is all of Europe. In the elections, we choose either a strong and flourishing Europe, or we step onto a dark path towards the past led by the far-right. https://t.co/QY2Anp1C39” / X

Nasima Razmyar on X: “The National Coalition Party gives its blessing to policies that undermine democracy and the rule of law in Finland. Where has the former party of education hidden? https://t.co/W7N1NYiFUD” / X

Tytti Tuppurainen on X: “The National Coalition Party has decided to embark on a slippery slope. The SDP is the only alternative that can prevent the rise of the far-right. https://t.co/3lS9xub54j” / X

1 Like
2172

Yes, it seems like quite a far-fetched theory. “Conspiracy theorist” is such a stigmatizing term that you’ll have to spout a lot more nonsense before I award you that title of honor.

The success of right-wing populists and the far-right in the European elections has been discussed since at least last year. Concerns have been raised about its impact on, for example, the EU’s environmental policy and support for Ukraine. Worried liberal conservatives have also participated in that discussion, so it’s not some exclusive theme of the left. I seem to recall that even the National Coalition Party’s Verkkouutiset has written about the subject.

As for the Social Democrats, as is evident from the headline of the article in your first link, they have excelled at Saturday press release blizzards. Of course, the opposition enters elections with the premise that the government is rubbish and we are the real alternative. And that applies even to those elections that have no impact whatsoever on government policy. There is nothing new in that.

2 Likes
2173

You are certainly one of the options, but your dystopia strategy might also turn against you if this starts to go overboard, as in Tuppurainen’s piece.

Tuppurainen: The National Coalition Party (Kokoomus) is tearing the flank open for extremist movements

2174

Wrong phrasing. I haven’t voted for the Social Democrats except in the Tradeka membership elections. And even in those, the only alternatives on offer were the candidate lists of the Left Alliance and the communists.

1 Like
2175

How far-fetched is that then? Just as a thought experiment:

In which scenario do you think a large-scale European war against Russia is more likely?

a) traditional parties win the European elections. The winners are either traditional right-wing parties or social democrats.

b) right-wing populists (FPÖ, FNF, AFD, XA, Fidesz, FDL, PiS, SD, etc.) achieve a clear election victory and a possible majority in the European Parliament.

1 Like