Undeniably, there has been “title inflation” in the job market, which I have also noticed. Often, job duties do not correspond to the job title in the job advertisement, for example.
My salary with a Bachelor’s degree from a university of applied sciences in a commercial field is about 6,200 e/month. I’m just over 30, so I’m quite satisfied. I won’t reveal the field further, but career advancement opportunities from now on are difficult. I’d be somewhat interested in seeing other things, but I would surely have to take a big pay cut. Well, salary development cannot be expected to be linear, just as the increase in investment returns isn’t either.
I am completely on a different page regarding that sales manager’s salary. In my opinion, 2600-3100e is a salesperson’s salary. A sales manager’s [salary should be] 4000-6000e. I think about it this way: a salesperson sells, may have personal targets but no greater responsibility. A sales manager’s duties include sales development, sales targets, customer acquisition, project sales, annual negotiations, etc. It’s true that these “telemarketing firms” use these titles however they want, and so do many others. In short, if a title has the word “manager,” then the responsibility should be in a different league, and so should the salary. It might be that I have a distorted view because my current employer pays a very good salary considering the level of requirements.
Sales development, sales targets, customer acquisition, project sales, annual negotiations, etc. In my opinion, these are the responsibilities of a sales director, not so much a sales manager. A typical sales manager is responsible for the development of a certain area, sales, and perhaps a couple of subordinates. However, by nature, sales-driven. Not for larger entities. Customer acquisition, led by the director, not directly alone…
Of course, I must now state that I only have experience from a handful of companies, but in all of them, the sales director was specifically responsible for targets and similar things. Sales managers participated in the implementation, etc.
There’s no specific formula, it’s hollow. I have a good idea how salaries go in HVAC product sales. Company structures are generally similar. A Regional Sales Manager/Sales Manager earns 5000-6000e/month, especially in international companies. The range for technical support/sales is 3000-4000e/month. I’ve been in the industry for well over ten years and have been to countless interviews. This world is very small and everyone knows where the salaries are. Well, that certainly applies to all fields. It’s significantly more difficult on the contracting and design side.
Now, if I could go back to my youth, I would study automation or IT. I’ve regularly read this thread and have gotten the impression that a large portion of high-earners are IT professionals.
In the IT sector, you can certainly earn well, but there’s another side to the coin. You’re practically always working, and significant responsibilities bring stress to daily life.
As a Sales Manager, salary 5500€/month. No subordinates. Education: vocational school in a different field, completed 15 years ago. In this field, achievements matter more than qualifications. Almost 10 years in the same organization, possibility to work remotely, and a fairly relaxed job description.
My future dream is to switch to seasonal, physically demanding work. In my mind, the good feeling after a workday spent outdoors and doing physically demanding work compensates for the halving of my gross salary. If all other aspects of the change show a plus, except for the salary, then this leap is a good solution in my books. Mental well-being has no price tag.
As a sales representative in the construction industry. Salary 4600 €/month and 5 years of experience. Daily allowances are a nice bonus and have been 5000-6000 € annually. I haven’t kept track for a couple of years now.
There are a lot of travel days, but the work is enjoyable. I started investing in direct stocks this year when I had to find something to do at the hotel. It has gone well and hasn’t been an expensive hobby so far.
As a reminder, in these entry-level jobs, there are usually no extras on top of the salary. The quality of work clothes is also highly dependent on the employer. Occupational health services might also be such that specialist doctor services are not included, and psychologists and dentists are also rare. For lunch, you can usually choose between microwavable or cold food. Workplace locations can be such that you don’t have time to eat lunch elsewhere, and there are no lunch benefits or similar perks. You might not be able or want to go everywhere by public transport or bike.
My sister once experienced a reverse culture shock when her menial jobs changed to IT industry perks after getting an education. Her first reaction was unfairness, as the salary was suddenly at least double, and on top of that came lunch, massages, regional travel cards, coffee, gym memberships, and all sorts of other things.
As an example from my own jobs, an XXL-sized work jacket means the length is the “standard” for all sizes for people 175 cm tall, and all the extra size goes around the waist. For someone 199 cm tall and of relatively normal weight, this was an incredibly terrible garment in every way. Conversely, I have also been handed a Blåklader catalog and told to pick what feels best from there; there are differences.
Outdoor jobs are sometimes quite nice, weather permitting, but a sleet storm that has lasted for over a week slowly starts to get annoying. If you haven’t been the outdoorsy type, I recommend trying to walk a few kilometers to the grocery store, for example. Carrying a week’s worth of groceries and milk all at once.
In general, if you are used to even slightly neater and better jobs and environments, the culture shock can be severe. In manual labor, you are easier to replace than in intellectual work, meaning they don’t always have to be so nice to you.
This “opening up” was not directly aimed at you, but rather a general observation that not everyone necessarily always knows or takes into account. I have been in physical jobs my whole life, but my parents spent their careers in higher-level positions. I have had the chance to see both sides.
Not all physical jobs are terrible, nor are all employers bad. My current employment now includes better-level occupational health services, Pekkaset (paid leave days), and very pleasant supervisors.
Edit. Oh, and the starting salary with zero experience is usually under 2000€/month. As your career progresses, you can then get a proper salary. My own monthly salary is slightly under 3000€; you won’t get rich with it, but you don’t have to count pennies either.
My own experiences align well with this. One must remember, of course, that there are many different kinds of jobs, but the pay is not astounding. I also remember how difficult it was to walk many kilometers a day in safety shoes. Winters were a pain. I myself was at the bottom of the company and had no benefits. Generally, there was a feeling that all development ideas, etc., were thrown straight into the trash. Even HVAC and assembly jobs are no picnic. Carrying, working in uncomfortable positions, etc. On the good side, the results are immediately visible. Indeed, clean indoor jobs win out, at least in the long run. My own knees certainly didn’t like it. Lower back and shoulder were often sore too.
Base salary €4340 / month (increased in April, if I recall correctly), total taxable earnings €103.6k, daily allowances around €15000. Daily allowances for December will still be around €1300, but I think I’ll receive them in January. Everyone can then calculate for themselves how much overtime that total earning required. Of course, there are a few other bonuses, a €1112 annual bonus and condition-based allowances from trips, 28% more than the base salary for the duration of the trip. Trip days somewhere around 230.
Let’s update my own situation now. Due to reorganization, one has had to apply for their own job a couple of times within a couple of years. The second time in a public search. In addition, salaries were cut for about half of the management level and above. I myself got a promotion (after 1.5 years of project management), the budget of the unit I lead rose to around 15-20 million, and the number of staff also increased. At least the number of direct subordinates decreased to a few, as I will have managers instead of specialists under me in the future. As a reward for this promotion and project management, I got gray hairs and a pay cut. About 500€ per month was cut from my salary compared to my last pay. And soon the next round of applying for my own job will begin.
This is how it is for us in the public sector. In recent years, I’ve applied for jobs in the private sector, but I’ve noticed that working in the public sector is an unpleasant stigma for a large number of employers. For example, I’ve been asked if I can cope in a relaxed work environment with top experts. I tried to assure them that I’m the same kind of hoodie-nerd crowd as everyone else, but I wasn’t believed. And I’m in IT with a strong technical background + information and cybersecurity expertise + ~9 years of various leadership experience. Not some administrative scientist in permit processing whose expertise isn’t in demand in the private sector.
In 2023, I mentioned being an underpaid M.Sc. (Econ.), but that I was building my CV and playing the long game. Now I don’t consider myself underpaid anymore, at least But to be honest, seeing the world and gaining international work and life experience is worth much more than money. The financial compensation comes as a nice bonus on top, and trips like this certainly don’t close any doors. I thought that I have to go now while I’m young or it’ll never happen; I was scared as hell, but I don’t regret a single day.
As for goals for 2026, hopefully a promotion in my current position through my own capabilities and performance.
Regarding these jobs abroad, it would be nice to know the city if you’re willing to reveal it. For example, I earned about 10k in London early in my career, but I wasn’t exactly living like royalty there. Although, as I mentioned, the experience in those roles is more valuable than any amount of money.
Updating the situation since things are going well:
2025: €8,400/month (Job no. 4)
2026e: €8,600/month (general increase)
2027e: €8,800/month (general increase)
I had some good luck at the end of this year, getting a new job and a good pay raise at the same time. Good luck in the sense that over the last couple of years, almost no suitable positions have come up, and there’s tough competition for every role. Still on probation, so these changes are always a bit nerve-wracking, but it’s gotten off to a nice start..
Since we’re talking about salary and money here, for the first time I feel like I actually have a high salary, getting about €5,000 net per month. I can get what I need and still fairly effortlessly save a large chunk of the salary every month.
At the same time, these are the forecasts for salary development for the next two years, so there’s no need to look for new job opportunities for a while, and we’ll probably go with a couple of percent index increases in 2026 and 2027. And still working in the finance industry
Interesting discussion. I am a high school teacher and this month my salary was 5000, because it included some bonuses. I have full seniority increments. I teach the absolute minimum number of hours, i.e., the required teaching load. With overtime hours a couple of years ago, my salary was approx. 6000 e. So a high school teacher earns quite well, considering the holidays.
Close to retirement age, I don’t want overtime. My working hours are now approx. 30–35 hours a week, BUT teaching is so taxing that a meeting where you just get to sit with others feels like free time. My brain is ruined because of burnout, and even now it takes full effort just to cope. The work consists of intensive reading, assessment, writing, planning, ideating, and finally, conducting lessons. I have thought a lot about working hours. Counting working hours doesn’t tell much about the strenuousness of the work. I have also been some sort of manager in another educational institution and didn’t teach much then. The workdays were long, but office work was much less stressful than a teacher’s work. There’s no reason to envy the number of teachers’ working hours, and if holidays were shortened, it would be even harder to get qualified teachers.
In my opinion, this has been blown quite out of proportion, and classifying/rating employees is commonplace, especially in US companies. Our company has the exact same practice, but employees are categorized based on their performance during the year:
10% Excellent year, 20% Good year, 40% Average year, 20% Mixed Year, 10% Off year.
You can only receive a salary increase higher than inflation or a promotion if you belong to the top two categories, i.e., the top third. Average performers get an inflation adjustment, and those below that receive no increase at all. Furthermore, the bottom 10% are placed under special observation, where there is a certain amount of time to improve one’s work performance or the employment is terminated.
The comparison is done across the entire company staff, and employees are compared across different departments within the same job grade. So, team members aren’t compared with each other; instead, manager-level employees are compared to each other, executive-level individuals to each other, etc. Thus, even some of those who have risen to the management level receive a poor rating and are left without an inflation adjustment.
I have noticed that this leads to significant resignations after every salary round. I’m sure the company actually hopes for this, as the poorest performers from each salary grade leave. The problem is that managers often give their subordinates ratings that are too high, meaning those higher up have to fit all salary grades into a normal distribution and downgrade some of the ratings. This is often done based on subjective “face value” bias, as many operational-level employees are not often in direct contact with the management team in their work duties.
What is your opinion on this way of handling salary rounds? I have personally received good ratings and benefited from this approach. However, this causes debate, especially within very high-performing teams, because some employees still often end up with a poor rating. It doesn’t seem to fit very well into Finnish work culture.
That’s an age-old stack ranking system practiced in American companies. In the one I was at, I left in the third year because apparently, you couldn’t get the top rating three times in a row, and rewards were based on that too. So I said adios.
I’m not joining a company that uses that ever again. Because it happened within the team, high performers had no incentive to help the weaker performers.
Of course, there are a few other bonuses, a €1112 annual bonus and condition-based allowances from trips, 28% more than the base salary for the duration of the trip. Trip days somewhere around 230.