Real alternative investments (wines, watches, collectibles) - What do you collect/invest in?

For a long time, I’ve been dreaming of acquiring a few watches that I really like. These would be bought for that long-term, lifelong portfolio. One is definitely the Speedmaster mentioned in previous posts. Admittedly, the Rolex Oyster Perpetual has always interested me. Isn’t Rolex setting up a few new factories in the coming years? I wonder if prices might drop :smiley:. Thanks to the person who posted the price index; it’s nice to follow that.

What do the board’s most hardcore watch flippers think—are Chrono24 prices always in line with the market? Is there some site domestically (Tori, Facebook?) that’s definitely worth following when buying a watch? All tips are welcome. Hopefully, the first timepiece of my own collection will be in my possession within a year.

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The Kelloharrastajat Facebook group is the largest watch group in Finland, and most watch trading within the country happens there. There are also other smaller groups on Facebook dedicated solely to selling.

I definitely cannot recommend buying a more valuable watch purely for investment purposes.

Welcome to the world of watches; watch out, it’ll suck you in before you know it! :smiley:

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When talking about used watches, prices are probably most consistent on Chrono24, especially if the brand and model in question are very well-known and there are many units for sale. There is sometimes quite a wide price range for some (of the same brand and model), but for used ones, condition/service history/full set factors naturally matter a lot. On Tori, on the other hand, it feels like people ask for whatever comes to mind, especially for Rolexes. Also, watches assembled from parts are sold as originals (see Frankenwatch).

Like @Bolse, I wouldn’t buy a watch as an investment either, but for use; I wouldn’t be able to resist using a fine micromechanical object (and the value drops when used, if/as patina develops). Watches are a nice hobby in the same way as stock picking, so why not pay a bit for it.

Value is likely pretty much the same as with gold: whatever a buyer is willing to pay for it at any given time. Of course, “quality watches” like Rolex, Omega, etc., certainly hold their value better. It’s then a bit down to luck whether the value (of a certain model) rises a lot over time, a whole lot, or something else. Rolex seems to know how to manipulate prices; i.e., a good brand and certain scarcity in production keeps raising prices constantly (for new watches).

Then there are all sorts of limited editions, whose prices can jump drastically due to some hype. Overall, demand creates value in these things as well.

Let’s add the FB group “kelloflippaajat” (watch flippers) to @Bolse’s list, where decent pieces change hands every single day. I’d say you can’t go far wrong with a Speedy or a Rollie if you want a high-quality timepiece.

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A friend of mine sent a photo via text at the beginning of October. It showed a bit of the side of a car with a caption asking if I was interested in a Volvo, reply immediately. The price was very reasonable and there was no time to waste. So, right then and there, I replied “yes, please.” The car had been sitting for about ten years and there were some variables involved, but I managed to negotiate roadworthiness restoration and inspection into the same deal. Today was pickup day, and even before the drive home, I could have turned a couple of grand in profit, but this vintage-registered gem is nonetheless destined for the long-term portf… stable, to join others of its kind. There’s a completely different kind of joy in these than in securities, and the ride is less bumpy than, say, with Plug Power.

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I can’t think of a better topic, so this will have to do here.

Usually, you have to rack your brain trying to figure out where to invest your money or even just put it. Sometimes the target finds you without much searching. This happened to me a couple of weeks ago.

I’ve been a huge music consumer my whole life, and when I was younger, I dreamed of rock stardom like many others. I can’t play anything but my mouth, but I haven’t let that bother my dreaming. However, I haven’t gotten closer to stardom than a photograph yet.

Some time ago, a musician who had put together a Finnish Tom Waits tribute album contacted me. He had somehow gotten it into his head that I was at least Finland’s biggest Tom Waits fan and that I had bags of money. With the second condition met, I was immediately ready to join the project. I couldn’t write an open check for the band, but after a short discussion, we came to an understanding of what kind of sums needed to be invested to get the album’s release moving. The album had already been recorded a long time ago, and its release had been promised already last year. In the end, it was surprisingly small sums that were needed to get the release across the finish line.

In projects like these, the commercial potential is not at all huge, just as it’s not huge anywhere in the cultural field. Usually, the artist ends up being the payer or the payer becomes the artist. I joined purely out of love for the genre. You won’t earn a million with this, or even two, and getting your own money back might be borderline. This gave me a nice new boost of enthusiasm for waiting for summer and a few new friends who are ready to ask for a handout when the opportunity arises.

The official release dates for the album are
March 28th: CD
April 17th: Vinyl

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Does anyone buy hockey cards? I found a bagful in a drawer, and Eric Lindros seems to be there many times :grin:

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I don’t think they are a great investment nowadays, or at least you shouldn’t hoard hockey cards with money in your eyes.

I myself studied how markets work using hockey cards before moving on to real investments. There were all sorts of interesting phenomena related to the card market as well.
Investing isn’t really any more difficult than drafting young talents in the end. It’s fundamentally about the same thing.

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I just sold the hockey cards I collected in the 90s. I got about 0.015 euros/card for them. It wasn’t a very good investment, but I remember the enthusiasm and joy of the 90s when you got to open card packs and new cards or rarities came out for your collection.

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You can still get joy from hockey cards even at this older age if you want.:blush:

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@Heikki21 May I ask which Rolex you bought? In my opinion, the golden age of watches is upon us, so I wouldn’t expect a huge rise, at least in the coming years, with the exception of individual models. I’m not really deep into the scene, so that’s just a guess on my part. Apologies for the off-topic.

I bought a Datejust. It suits my style, which is not very sporty.

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I used to collect Donald Ducks. Although the collecting started in childhood, continued through my teens and into adulthood, the value of the magazines was always what was on my mind. The idea was to sell them decades later. I immensely enjoyed these magazines both as objects and as stories. Living through the 80s and 90s, it seemed that nothing would stop the appreciation in value of Donald Duck magazines from the 50s, 60s, and 70s. They had to be acquired immediately, as supply seemed to be constantly dwindling and prices rising. By the 90s, a firm feeling had already set in that the acquisition train had left, prices had soared, and I could no longer afford to acquire them…

But then came the internet. People started reading fewer things outside of screens. First, informational books became problem waste, then books from book clubs, former Christmas gifts like record books and the What, Where, When series. Bookcases no longer belonged in modern interior design at all. Online magazines and their annual archives emerged. Apartment interior design became minimalist, and apartment sizes kept shrinking. Interior colors were white and clean empty surfaces; tabletops and shelves had to be free of clutter; a single carefully placed object in an empty space emphasized emptiness and a clean white surface.

The era of brightly yellow, colorful, tattered, and room-filling piles of Donald Duck magazines was definitively over. They weren’t even suitable for children’s rooms anymore. The empty space freed up by them had become even more valuable, as apartments had shrunk and living had become more expensive per square meter.

Thus, the value of my beloved collection never increased, contrary to what I thought as a little boy. Against all expectations, annual sets from the 70s, once bought at a quite expensive price, started to become available for just a few euros. Complete annual sets, whereas annual sets sometimes had to be largely collected one magazine at a time from antique shops. Missing pieces were hunted for a long time. Now, there aren’t many antique shops left either.

Collecting as an investment can thus be challenging when trying to predict the future several decades ahead. In hindsight, everything, of course, seems clear.

However, there might still be a return in value in the future, as when looking at online marketplaces (Tori) and auctions, one cannot avoid the impression that the last well-preserved collections have emerged from their hiding places and are on their way to destruction. If they don’t sell, they are destroyed; if they do sell, the new buyer might not value them as objects to be preserved. Estates dump everything into landfills. I suspect that in a decade or two, well-preserved childhood magazines might already be quite rare. Demand is unlikely to return, but the value might recover on the brink of the species’ extinction.

P.S. I haven’t collected much anymore for the reasons I’ve listed. I focus only on valuable literature. Books whose value is between €30-€200 and which have reading value for me. Of course, that also takes up space.

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Pokemon cards are hot stuff, but what about the recently released The Wonderful World of Moomin 2025 collector cards? Could these have the potential to be a money-maker in the future, knowing what has happened with the mugs :squinting_face_with_tongue: Purely my own speculation, these are collector cards released in honor of Moomin’s 80th anniversary year :cat_face:

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This doesn’t quite fit under the title, as my collection isn’t particularly valuable and probably never will become so.
When I was younger, I bought CDs and generally listened to heavy metal, attending gigs quite seriously.
The collection consists of about 900 discs, of which a certain portion is quite valuable, including self-released black metal, no-barcode versions, and then quite a lot of 1980s / early 90s pressings (Maiden, Pink Floyd, Queen, Genesis, Judas Priest, etc.) – meaning those without any remastering or loudness modification “to improve the sound.” Instead, they are just digital copies from analog tapes. Good sound, but they don’t wear out like vinyl records.

100-200 discs are relatively worthless junk, some of it quite decent stuff. The intention is to keep them as mementos, even though I don’t currently have a CD player. They are in storage in boxes. The idea would be to someday build a storage cabinet from a large cupboard where everything fits at once, and it has pull-out shelves from which one can choose a disc. Some of the discs have been entered there.

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a timely topic in itself, as every investor has probably thought about where else they could invest money to get more enjoyment from. Unfortunately, however, when you acquire something, you soon don’t pay much attention to it anymore. A few broken old paintings (18th-19th century) have been bought from Bukowskis (+conservation 500e per painting). Perhaps one could get their money back after 10 years of holding? Finnish banknotes, 500mk and 1000mk from 1922, have quite interesting motifs. Old coins. Roman silver coins from 100 BCE (Ebay USA), a few gold coins (Ebay UK). Gold has risen. Perhaps all coins have tripled in 20 years? It’s a small amount… One automatic watch has also been bought; their downside is the need for service every 5-7 years. It was serviced once, but now it has stopped, and I haven’t bothered to take it for service. Apple Ultra2 is just nice; from it you can see stock prices + your own location when moving in the terrain. From YouTube, I sometimes watch test drives of the “undervalued” Porsche 911 model years 1999-2001, but I even go to the store by bicycle. And those service prices…

Finally, an investor’s experience ..Äkkirikastunut Vili Värtinen osti 14 000 euron kellon ja kalliin auton, mutta oli lohduttoman yksin | Yle Lume | Yle
A couple of years ago, Vili Värtinen was sitting in his car.
The twenty-something man had Louis Vuitton shoes on his feet and a 14,000 euro Rolex Submariner on his wrist. The car was a brand-new Mercedes-Benz.
Sitting in the car, he was lonelier than ever.
– It’s a fucking sad place to be. I sat there amidst all that stuff and just wanted to go home and make an apple pie with my spouse.

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This made me think about the difficulty of investing in art. The price of art is cyclical, similar to the stock market, and identifying a future top (priced) artist is even more difficult. It’s probably easier to invest in works by esteemed artists, etc., things that have already established their value in some way, but at least in the field of art, easy gains don’t seem to be available.

My parents bought a large “cat painting” by Leena Luostarinen about ~40 years ago. She is a big name among Finnish artists, who passed away some time ago. The painting wasn’t bought with an increase in value in mind, so it doesn’t matter to them in that sense, but as an example, it definitely represents the more esteemed and expensive end of Finnish artists. Sometimes my mom mentions that its value has “more than doubled” and it’s valuable, but if the same money had been invested in an index, even the (nowadays) miserable OMxH25/HEX is about 15x (data ended in '87) in the same time. Nasdaq is probably over 100x.

At the same time, some watches, wine, and even Legos, rare Pokémon or Magic cards have generated returns comparable to the stock market. It seems that Magic and Pokémon have yielded the most, then Legos, and then more traditional watches, wines, etc., and finally more traditional art.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgfinance/comments/lo4c54/is_mtg_a_good_longterm_investment_i_did_the_math/

Art World Statistics Every Artist Needs to Know — CAI.

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Speaking of collectible cards, here’s some old Magic. I don’t have a proper “God book,” but one pretty good spread. These were also 10x their acquisition price at some point, now they’ve come down about 30% from their peaks. Could be a buying opportunity, but since I don’t have any play use for these, I’d rather invest in slightly newer so-called “Silver age” cards that I play (they pay a “fun dividend”).

These are Reserved List cards, which cannot be printed again, meaning in theory the number of copies on the market does not increase. The risk, of course, is that better versions of old cards are made.

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I’m investing my time and eventually a few hundred euros into the following project.

A few weeks ago, I started translating Fernando Pessoa’s poetry book, Mensagem. It hasn’t been translated into Finnish to date, nor really entirely into other languages. The original language is Portuguese.
I’ve been studying Portuguese on Duolingo for over 500 days, after which I realized that my skills weren’t developing fast enough, and I’d hit a wall relying solely on self-study. So, I enlisted my new best friend, artificial intelligence. I’m having it do a raw translation into Finnish and alongside it, into English. The rest I’m rhyming in beautiful Finnish, as only a capitalist can.

The project is a snack while working on my other writing career. It’s a clear entity where I can practice language use. The work is slightly complicated by the fact that Pessoa made at least three different versions of the poems, and the AI sometimes gets confused about which translation to offer, so I have to shepherd it. As a warm-up, I already translated the ultra-short versions, and now I’m proceeding in the order of the book I own.
If I manage to complete the translation, I will acquire the copyrights to the translations. Pessoa’s copyrights conveniently expired in the early 2000s.

Not many wheelbarrows full of money are promised from the rights, but it’s even more important to make something tangible visible from one’s expertise. After all, no one reads or buys poems, but the project is good practice for the future.

Remember to make good investment decisions and use your time wisely.

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I once solved the CD storage problem by dismantling all the useless cabinets and countertops from the kitchen and filling one wall from floor to ceiling with CDs. I then moved the vinyl record collection to the living room.

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CDs are not a terribly hot investment, and I’m not even trying to liquidate my own collection, but everything eventually goes for money. The most expensive disc to leave the CD shelf went for 500 euros.

On the vinyl record side, I’ve been smiling at the value development of early 70s releases in particular. One larger acquisition especially comes to mind: It wasn’t a bad deal to trade a scooter for prog and other records sometime after the turn of the millennium. Since then, I haven’t owned any motorized vehicle.

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