The Future of China's Economy

@Arimatti_Alhanko has nicely put together good points in one tweet. :pray:

The new high tariffs imposed by the United States against China have not produced the desired effects. Americans still avoid industrial work, and China remains price-competitive… even after the tariffs. Many Chinese products circumvent tariffs by simply changing their origin label to “Made in Vietnam”. :slight_smile:

It’s not worth settling for that summary; you should really check these out:

https://x.com/StockBrain247/status/1911653142711947390
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Tweet links:

https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/lvmh-finds-making-louis-vuitton-bags-messy-texas-2025-04-10/
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/facing-trump-tariffs-vietnam-eyes-crackdown-some-china-trade-2025-04-11/

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According to rumors, Xi specifically does not want to attack Taiwan. War would shift his power more to the military, over which he is already losing his grip. So Xi’s rivals hope for war and tougher actions with the USA. I live under the delusion that in the long run it is in China’s and the USA’s interest if Taiwan were pushed into a real war and expertise were shared between the superpowers. The USA would suffer much more if the transition to Chinese control were somewhat peaceful.

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Nokia did largely the same at its Salo factory in Finland during its final years. A phone almost 100% assembled elsewhere was brought to Finland, operator-specific software was flashed into it, and the whole package with accessories was packed here, for example, into a Vodafone package. Enough value was created in Finland, and voila, a ‘Made in Finland’ Nokia was born :-). This was, of course, sincerely called customization, done close to the target market.

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China’s central bank (PBOC) has granted more gold import licenses to selected banks in response to growing demand, driven by trade tensions and rising gold prices.

Gold’s appeal as a safe-haven investment is growing, and investment funds and insurance companies are also increasing their holdings.

China has clearly “surprisingly” prepared and is certainly still preparing for global storms.

https://x.com/Sino_Market/status/1911713339375571411
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In the tweet below, there is a bit more about the matter:

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Was there any news coverage about this matter? The market doesn’t seem to have taken this very seriously so far.
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Here’s more on how Xi Jinping is touring Southeast Asia, emphasizing the importance of free trade and stability.

He visited Vietnam, where the countries signed cooperation agreements on logistics and agriculture, among other things. In Malaysia, Xi continues discussions on the ASEAN free trade agreement. The tour coincides with international uncertainty caused by US tariffs.

ASEAN Secretary-General Kao Kim Hourn told Chinese state media that the agreement will eliminate many tariffs between China and the bloc’s members. “We will bring more tariffs down to zero in many cases, and then expand to all the areas,” he said in an interview with CGTN, the state broadcaster’s English channel.

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I’ve been thinking that we don’t really grasp Asia in relation to Europe and the United States. Even though Europe and the United States are rich and powerful, the world’s demographic center of gravity is in Asia.

Trump’s desire to change the world order, viewed from our “Western bubble,” is in a way logical but at the same time dangerous, because outside our bubble, things are seen differently. China does not pursue Western values but wants to prosper and accumulate power in its own way.

China is unlikely to significantly change its ways because of Trump’s trade war. Some fine-tuning and concessions will probably come, but I don’t believe the main direction will change. So, in the future, we need to learn to live better with their ways.

One thing that bothers me is exchange rates and their impact on statistics. This became very clear elsewhere on the forum, where Japan’s standard of living was only slightly higher than Estonia’s due to the weak yen. The same applies to China; statistics show the country as “poorer” than it “really” is.

Even when I visited the country, I noticed that the price level was very affordable, too affordable to be true when considering the quality level. In many respects, the absolute quality was clearly ahead of the West, and yet the price level was very low. For example, transportation: the train was a modern 350 km/h high-speed train, the metro was functional, very clean and modern, or the taxi was a new electric car. Yet the prices of tickets/journeys were significantly more affordable than in the West. (Compare, for example, to the United States, where trains are like from a museum, the New York subway is downright subpar as an experience, and taxis are not worth cheering for in terms of quality. The price level is something completely different from China).

The point of my long post is that China’s economy is actually larger than its size, largely due to exchange rates. They use different means than we do to prosper; some of these means are strange to us, some are very unfair or dishonest. Time will tell how such methods, which differ from ours, will yield results.

From an investor’s perspective, the essential question is, does China really even want to enrich stock investors (especially foreign ones)? In our own bubble, this is self-evident, but China’s rules of the game can be quite different in this regard. If this desire is not present, there is a risk that in a so-called tight spot, the interests of shareholders will not be cared for.

I myself am cautious precisely about property rights and the consideration of investors’ interests, and for that reason, I do not invest directly in Chinese stocks. I don’t believe in a development quite like Russia’s, but even the trampling of investors’ interests can have an unpleasant effect on investment returns.

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Bessent said in an interview on Bloomberg that all options are on the table, including the delisting of Chinese stocks. You can certainly find it by Googling. It seems like an unlikely option, but who knows these days. Is there any understanding of such a process? Or should one just buy Chinese stocks preferably from European stock exchanges? That would minimize that risk.

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Regarding Alibaba, the situation is apparently as described below. The same probably applies to other ADRs. So, European parallel listings would not help. And even if one owned the shares from Hong Kong, the selling pressure on ADRs would likely cause those to fall as well. I suspect it’s better to sell the shares in good time.

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The article below talks about China’s latest figures. :slight_smile:

China’s economy grew by 5.4% in the first quarter of the year, exceeding expectations. Retail sales and industrial production rose significantly more than forecasts. Unemployment fell.

Growth was naturally supported by stimulus measures, but less surprisingly, US tariffs and weak domestic demand threaten the outlook. Naturally, several banks have lowered China’s full-year growth forecasts.

China’s reported data should be viewed with a certain perspective. :slight_smile:

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https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/16/chinas-first-quarter-gdp-growth-at-as-trade-war-heats-up.html

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In some article, the growth was attributed to tariff fears; US companies stockpiled goods from China before the tariffs took effect. Q2 is going to be very interesting :slightly_smiling_face:

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Interesting to see what twists and turns emerge in these agreements (behind a paywall):

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/u-s-plans-to-use-tariff-negotiations-to-isolate-china-177d1528?mod=hp_lead_pos3

The Trump administration plans to use ongoing tariff negotiations to pressure U.S. trading partners to limit their ties with China, sources familiar with the matter say. U.S. officials plan to ask more than 70 countries during the negotiations:

  • To prevent China from sending goods through their countries;
  • To prevent Chinese companies from establishing themselves in their territories to circumvent U.S. tariffs;
  • Not to accept China’s cheap industrial products into their economies.
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China has appointed Li Chenggang as international trade negotiator and vice minister of commerce, replacing Wang Shouwen. The appointment comes at a time when trade tensions with the United States have escalated.

There are no signs of negotiations resuming and the tariff dispute has rapidly deepened. That’s the message of the article below in brief.

"Key Points

  • China on Wednesday appointed Li Chenggang as vice minister of commerce and a top representative for international trade negotiation.
  • The appointment makes Li a key member of China’s trade negotiation team as Beijing deals with trade disputes with the U.S. "

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/16/china-replaces-top-trade-negotiating-official-as-trade-talks-with-washington-stalls-.html

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China has now shifted its countermeasures against the United States from tariffs to trade in services, where the U.S. has previously had a surplus.

Beijing is now restricting the operations of American companies, for example, in tourism and cultural exports. The goal is to increase pressure before potential negotiations. Analysts, at least, expect China to continue using non-tariff-based measures and warn of a deepening economic dispute between the countries.

"Key Points

  • While the Trump administration has largely focused on pressing ahead on his tariff plans, Beijing has rolled out a series of non-tariff restrictive measures.
  • China is seen by some as seeking to broaden the trade war to encompass services trade — which covers travel, legal, consulting and financial services — where the U.S. has been running a significant surplus with China for years.
  • “Beijing is clearly signaling to Washington that two can play in this retaliation game and that it has many levers to pull, all creating different levels of pain for U.S. companies,” said Wendy Cutler, vice president at Asia Society Policy Institute."

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/17/china-targets-us-services-and-other-areas-after-decrying-meaningless-tariff-hikes-on-goods-.html

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Below is an article, among other things, about how, according to the European Chamber of Commerce, China has not achieved several key objectives in its technology strategy. As the article states, the country has certainly made progress in the fields of electric cars, shipbuilding, and high-speed trains, but it lagged behind, for example, in the aircraft industry and robotics.

China’s strategy caused unhealthy competition and overproduction, especially in electric cars. A lot was invested in research, but economic efficiency was often “missing.”

Currently, China is now emphasizing consumption because production exceeds domestic demand.

"Key Points

  • China missed several key targets from its 10-year plan to become self-sufficient in technology, and fostered unhealthy industrial competition which increased global trade tensions, the European Chamber of Commerce in China said in a report this week.
  • Out of ten strategic sectors identified in the report, China only attained clear technological leadership in shipbuilding, high-speed rail and electric cars.
  • Despite not making all “Made in China 2025” targets, the country has advanced so rapidly, it’s now a direct competitor with European and U.S. manufacturing in many aspects, the chamber said."

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/18/where-made-in-china-2025-missed-the-mark.html

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A trade war against China is a risk, but if it is to be continued, it is advisable to broadly ally with friendly nations and keep tariff policy predictable - as stated in the article below. The White House, however, has torn alliances apart and varied tariff percentages frequently, which has undermined trust.

The various tariffs imposed by Trump and their continuous exemption and reinstatement decisions have caused chaos. China has responded by restricting the export of important metals and electronic components, which threatens the US automotive, aerospace, and information technology industries. Most significantly, the US’s dependence is in toys, home appliances, and battery materials, as most of their manufacturing is in China. At the same time, China buys large quantities of US agricultural and electronic goods.

According to the article, the result of all this is an asymmetrical trade war in which the USA is likely to suffer more than China.

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China increased the pace of government budget spending in January–March at the strongest rate since 2022, with expenditures growing by 5.6 percent. Such measures aim to shield the economy from the effects of US tariffs, housing market weakness, and deflation, as growth forecasts are expected to slow as the year progresses.

Several major banks have lowered China’s growth forecast to around four percent, and authorities are ready to increase stimulus if needed.

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@Antti_Leinonen has written an interesting text about the trade war between the United States and China.

Undoubtedly, the trade war hurts China. Its dependence on the United States has significantly decreased since Trump’s first term. China has gradually moved up the value chain and its competitiveness is no longer based on cheap labor. China clearly has grounds to challenge the United States, which sees it as its worst competitor.

While the rest of the world seeks to balance its relations with both countries, China is likely able to operate with a longer-term perspective than a U.S. president’s four-year term.

Subheadings:

  1. The United States Cuts Supply Chains
  2. Alliances Were the Strength of the United States
  3. China is a Major Financier of the United States
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China’s central bank has continued to increase its gold reserves at a record pace for five months now.

According to official data, China’s gold reserves have grown significantly, but experts believe the actual purchase volumes are even higher; for example, acquisitions made in the London market in February suggest that China is accumulating gold significantly faster than reported.

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I have had the opportunity to closely observe some classes at Chinese mid-tier universities and the lives of students in Finland through my work. Here are a few observations regarding the students and the growing number of PhD degrees:

  • A PhD degree is needed if one wants to achieve a high position in working life and earn a higher salary.
  • The quality of research does not matter, only the paper itself.
  • A common question from students is how to get the paper in a maximum of 6 months.
  • A common place to obtain a degree is Malaysia (with money).
  • University students’ motivation is zero. The teacher is seen only as another authority figure who comes to lecture.
  • Although technology is available, basic IT skills are poor. For example, they don’t know how to share a screen in Teams or understand the meaning of the “Share” button.
  • Students are, on average, at the level of a Finnish eighth-grader in terms of “everyday life skills.”
  • Many university students in Finland get to taste freedom for the first time in their lives, making their own choices and decisions in their daily lives.
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