# Inderes Coffee Room (Part 2)
**URL:** https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665
**Category:** Sijoittaminen
**Created:** [January 29, 2021, 12:58am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665 "2021-01-29T00:58:22Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 11
### Author:  [@Hurde](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Hurde)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 8:42am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/208 "2021-02-01T08:42:29Z")
Came across this during the weekend:
[https://tau.jobteaser.com/fi/job-offers/6835438-nordnet-bank-ab-suomen-sivuliike-tyoharjoittelu-markkinointitiimissa](https://tau.jobteaser.com/fi/job-offers/6835438-nordnet-bank-ab-suomen-sivuliike-tyoharjoittelu-markkinointitiimissa)
> The internship is unpaid, but Nordnet offers a lunch benefit (214 €).
They rip 15€ out of trades outside the Nordic countries (which a large part of the users of this forum probably pay quite happily), but an intern can’t be paid.
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### Author:  [@Jarnis](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Jarnis)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 8:43am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/209 "2021-02-01T08:43:21Z")
Nordnet shamelessly takes advantage of the fact that students in that field are, at that stage, solely and only interested in networking and making contacts for their future careers…
Edit: And this isn’t wrong - the law of supply and demand - since it’s legal to operate this way and there will certainly be takers for that position.
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### Author:  [@zteady](https://forum.inderes.com/u/zteady)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 8:45am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/210 "2021-02-01T08:45:20Z")
Why is Nordnet suddenly charging me a 3€ brokerage fee instead of the normal one? This level supposedly requires 50 trades/month. Is one share one trade? I’ve only bought three times.
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### Author:  [@Wappie](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Wappie)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 8:45am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/211 "2021-02-01T08:45:29Z")
It’s really sad how much free labor is used in these high-status fields. Engineering students don’t have to put up with that. Supply and demand probably plays a role here too 😃
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### Author:  [@Jarnis](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Jarnis)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 8:45am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/212 "2021-02-01T08:45:48Z")
> [@zteady](#):
>
> Why is Nordnet suddenly charging me a €3 brokerage fee instead of the normal one? This level supposedly requires 50 trades/month. Is one share one trade? I’ve only bought three times.
New customers get that for a while. Was it one month or three months, I don’t remember. It’s a good help when starting a portfolio, as filling it up at the beginning isn’t with normal rip-off costs.
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### Author:  [@Musta\_leijona](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Musta_leijona)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 8:48am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/213 "2021-02-01T08:48:01Z")
That’s a rip-off. They should at least pay a small fee if they’re not going to pay a salary. I was an intern at another bank back in the day and didn’t get a salary, but I did get a good thousand euros per month in compensation.
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### Author:  [@evok](https://forum.inderes.com/u/evok)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 8:51am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/214 "2021-02-01T08:51:28Z")
It’s not exploitation if there are takers for the job, and there certainly will be a small queue of them.
In my opinion, students often think too short-term about their summer or part-time jobs. One free or low-paid good experience opens up a huge number of new doors through which it will pay itself back later.
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### Author:  [@LuxusInvest](https://forum.inderes.com/u/LuxusInvest)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 8:57am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/215 "2021-02-01T08:57:43Z")
Yes, students need that money just like everyone else. A student loan + housing allowance + study grant totals around 1100-1200€/month, and in the Helsinki metropolitan area, at least 700-800€/month of that goes to housing.
For many students, it’s practically impossible to work for free, even if it might open some doors in the future.
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### Author:  [@Gremeor](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Gremeor)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/216 "2021-02-01T09:01:38Z")
{“content”:“In the summer, the only support one can get is the general housing allowance, which is, if I recall correctly, around 350e max. I, at least, absolutely need a salary if I want to pay for my rent and food. Student financial aid can only be drawn when studying (one can, of course, do summer studies, but since there’s only x amount of support months, those will then be deducted from the later study period).”,“target\_locale”:“en”}
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### Author:  [@KalleH](https://forum.inderes.com/u/KalleH)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 9:04am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/217 "2021-02-01T09:04:02Z")
> [@LuxusInvest](#):
>
> For many students, it’s practically impossible to work for free, even if it might open some doors in the future.
Practically, if you’re not willing to pay interns a salary, you can only get students who are very well off, either with their parents’ money or their own. This was the way people used to keep the “lower class” out of the way, but nowadays many places realize that this can exclude the truly talented people.
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### Author:  [@LuxusInvest](https://forum.inderes.com/u/LuxusInvest)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 9:04am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/218 "2021-02-01T09:04:10Z")
Ah, right, I didn’t even consider the summer. So, if you work unpaid during the summer, you’d still have to complete a certain amount of studies on top of that to get student aid. And then those aid months are taken away from the later stages of your studies.
All the more reason why a salary is simply a must these days. In my opinion, it gives a really bad impression of a company if they don’t pay any kind of compensation for something like that.
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### Author:  [@Wappie](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Wappie)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 9:06am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/219 "2021-02-01T09:06:58Z")
Of course, everyone is responsible for their own career and assesses the benefits of free work in the future. It just sounds so odd that someone is willing to do unpaid work when they come from the engineering student bubble where you go to a paper mill for 4 months to earn €20k. Everyone can then use that money for living or investing as they wish.
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### Author:  [@Gremeor](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Gremeor)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 9:11am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/220 "2021-02-01T09:11:45Z")
😁 I wish engineering students were paid that kind of salary nowadays. I’m a second-year student myself and I hope to get even close to 2000e/month (I probably won’t)
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### Author:  [@KalleH](https://forum.inderes.com/u/KalleH)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 9:14am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/221 "2021-02-01T09:14:46Z")
You can do that in fifteen minutes with option trading. At least if euphoria is to be believed.
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### Author:  [@Nahka\_Tapsa](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Nahka_Tapsa)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 9:27am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/222 "2021-02-01T09:27:24Z")
I understand basic elementary school work placements for food compensation, but a university intern who does real work, for which some in the company are also paid, should receive compensation for their work.
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### Author:  [@evok](https://forum.inderes.com/u/evok)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 9:28am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/223 "2021-02-01T09:28:46Z")
You also brought up one of the current students’ money pits - having to live in a studio apartment, preferably in a good location.
My last student status was in 2014, so my expert experience isn’t from too long ago.
I always wondered why everyone had to live in a €900/month studio apartment in Kallio, when I struggled in €220-450/month shared apartments and flatshares in the suburbs.
For a student budget, that difference is huge, which simultaneously drives them to take on jobs based on the “salary \> experience” principle.
Rent is a really easy way to save, even in Helsinki where I myself studied, but few take advantage of that opportunity.
> **[Opiskelijat valittavat köyhyydestä, mutta hinkuvat silti kalliille...](https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/opiskelijat-valittavat-koyhyydesta-mutta-hinkuvat-silti-kalliille-asuinalueelle-nama-vastaremontoidut-asunnot-eivat-kelpaa-vaikka-maksettavaa-jaisi-vain-50-euroa-kuussa/7396486)**
>
> Helsingin opiskelija-asuntosäätiön toimitusjohtajan mukaan opiskelijat haluavat asunnolta rauhaa ja yksityisyyttä mutta suosivat silti keskusta-asumista.
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### Author:  [@LuxusInvest](https://forum.inderes.com/u/LuxusInvest)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 9:45am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/224 "2021-02-01T09:45:16Z")
Do they want their student years to be a struggle then? These are all value choices, and so is whether one wants/needs pay for their work. I personally couldn’t, nor would I want to, live in some student dump for years.
That still doesn’t change the fact that nowadays work should be paid for, whether one is an intern or not.
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### Author:  [@Hurde](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Hurde)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 9:47am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/225 "2021-02-01T09:47:29Z")
> [@evok](#):
>
> You also brought up one of the current students’ money pits – the need to live in a studio apartment, preferably in a good location.
> I last had student status in 2014, so my expert experience isn’t from too long ago.
> I always wondered why everyone had to live in a €900/month studio apartment in Kallio, when I struggled in €220-450/month shared apartments and house shares in the suburbs.
>
> For a student budget, that difference is huge, which simultaneously leads to jobs being taken based on a “salary \> experience” principle.
>
> Rent is a really easy way to save, even in Helsinki where I also studied, but few people use that opportunity.
Student dorm rooms cost about 300-350€.
The study grant is about 250€.
The general housing allowance is 80% of the difference between acceptable housing costs and the basic self-liability. In this case, you would receive about 250€ in housing allowance.
So, you get 500€ per month in support, of which 100-150€ remains after housing costs (+ electricity, etc.). You can’t exactly live like a lord on that, when you subtract school lunch, bus tickets, phone plan, Unisport, etc. Of course, you can get a loan of 600€/month on top of that, but it’s a loan. One cannot base a person’s survival on a loan.
Work should be paid, and I find it utterly ridiculous that such activity is given silent approval. I worked almost throughout my studies once a week, in addition to working all summers. I would never have worked an hour without pay.
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### Author:  [@Wappie](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Wappie)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 9:50am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/226 "2021-02-01T09:50:31Z")
Oulu engineering students seem to be in a particularly lucky position, unless the situation has changed a lot from a few years ago. Most of them found work at some large factory, and at the end of April, the guild was still being called to ask if there were any free workers available. The luckiest ones got outrageously high salaries at a paper mill, and others had to settle for steel mill wages. Even there, with plenty of Sunday bonuses and double shifts, you could get really juicy earnings. But that job is far from having status 😃
After factory summers, you go to “real jobs” and start building from somewhere around 2000e/month.
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### Author:  [@evok](https://forum.inderes.com/u/evok)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2021, 9:54am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/inderesin-kahvihuone-osa-2/12665/227 "2021-02-01T09:54:46Z")
> [@LuxusInvest](#):
>
> So you want your student years to be a struggle? These are purely value-based choices, and so is whether you want/need a salary from your job. I personally couldn’t, nor would I want to, live in some cramped dorm for years.
These are choices. Who do you guess will get a better summer job for summer 2022:
Student a) lives frugally in a dorm, goes to work for Nordnet for the summer even if their savings dwindle.
Student b) lives in a studio apartment and works as a cashier at a store for the summer, because otherwise they can’t afford the rent.
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