# Dovre Group - Snow work and cod
**URL:** https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631
**Category:** Osakkeet
**Tags:** dovre, dovre-group
**Created:** [February 21, 2020, 8:08am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631 "2020-02-21T08:08:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 36
### Author:  [@Puutaheinaa](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Puutaheinaa)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2025, 11:36am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/821 "2025-09-04T11:36:59Z")
> [@L\_Dabio](#):
>
> E: of course, it depends on the total number of shares and how much it dilutes with this; we don’t know yet how this will develop
It dilutes by just under two percent. Not material, this transaction amount at this point was cosmetic, as stated above
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### Author:  [@ValkoinenPeura](https://forum.inderes.com/u/ValkoinenPeura)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2025, 12:18pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/823 "2025-09-04T12:18:51Z")
I don’t know what kind of shareholder agreements Suvic’s founding shareholders and Dovre have had, but in principle, this arrangement can be seen as positive IF Suvic’s business turns profitable. Now Dovre got the company’s entire share capital for itself at a nominal purchase price, but negotiations might be considerably more difficult if Suvic were making a profit.
Now all that’s missing is Suvic’s turnaround in results.
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### Author:  [@Zebra](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Zebra)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2025, 1:38pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/824 "2025-09-04T13:38:22Z")
One would think the company would use the 236725 shares it owns for this; otherwise, it’s strange.
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### Author:  [@ValkoinenPeura](https://forum.inderes.com/u/ValkoinenPeura)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2025, 2:01pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/825 "2025-09-04T14:01:44Z")
> [@Zebra](#):
>
> One would think the company would use the 236,725 shares it owns for this; if not, it’s strange.
The current value of those 236,725 shares is 37,876 euros. Does it really matter in this situation whether new shares worth 286 thousand or 248 thousand are directed to the sellers + the shares already owned? Or if the purchase price had been paid, for example, in cash?
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### Author:  [@NeverStopTheMadness](https://forum.inderes.com/u/NeverStopTheMadness)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2025, 9:30am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/826 "2025-09-05T09:30:01Z")
Dilution will occur, yes, but the share price effect should depend on whether the acquisition target was reasonably priced. If it was, then it shouldn’t affect the share price at all. On Dovre’s balance sheet, the company’s assets grow in this arrangement (i.e., shares are not given for free). It’s another question whether it was worth paying anything for those shares 🙂
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### Author:  [@NeverStopTheMadness](https://forum.inderes.com/u/NeverStopTheMadness)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2025, 9:38am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/827 "2025-09-05T09:38:16Z")
To my eye, the arrangement seems primarily an incentive scheme aimed at Suvic’s management/founders, where a minority stake was simultaneously bought out at a “reasonable” price (=meaning they are hopefully motivated to continue). The purchase price paid in shares is not, considering the overall picture, of great significance in this situation, because Dovre’s future development practically depends on Suvic’s continued success.
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### Author:  [@Puutaheinaa](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Puutaheinaa)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2025, 9:55am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/828 "2025-09-05T09:55:35Z")
> [@NeverStopTheMadness](#):
>
> On Dovre’s balance sheet, the company’s assets grow in this arrangement
Shouldn’t the 49% of Suvic already on Dovre’s balance sheet now be valued at this fresh and reliable estimate of Suvic’s value, the entire share capital according to the purchase price being just over half a million?
What does the balance sheet look like after such a write-down, does the equity ratio still remain positive?
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### Author:  [@Juippi2](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Juippi2)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2025, 8:19am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/829 "2025-10-09T08:19:41Z")
The entire company is in danger of collapsing, previous paid dividends a strange bet:
> **[Dovrelta tulosvaroitus Suvic-tappioiden kasvaessa – Maksukyvyttömyys uhkaa...](https://www.kauppalehti.fi/uutiset/a/c1733f6d-5c55-4cb0-b053-1879950b6f31)**
>
> Dovren hallitus arvioi, että ilman lisärahoitusta tai uusien projektien tulovirtaa, yhtiö ei pysty selviytymään maksuvelvoitteistaan vuoden 2026 ensimmäisellä neljänneksellä. Suvicin projektinhallinta, toimintakulttuuri ja menetelmät eivät ole olleet...
> **[Tulosvaroitus: Dovren tulos on muodostumassa ennakoitua heikommaksi - Inderes](https://www.inderes.fi/releases/tulosvaroitus-dovren-tulos-on-muodostumassa-ennakoitua-heikommaksi)**
>
> Dovre Group Oyj | Sisäpiiritieto | 9.10.2025 klo 10.57Dovre tiedotti puolivuotiskatsauksessaan 20.8.2025 Suvicin ruotsalaisen tytäryhtiön tuulipuistoprojektien aiheuttaneen kaikkiaan 23,7 miljoonan...
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### Author:  [@MikiMiki](https://forum.inderes.com/u/MikiMiki)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2025, 8:53am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/831 "2025-10-09T08:53:11Z")
Kyösti Kakko is going to have a big miss with this company. Well, investments don’t always hit the mark. The big players can afford big losses.
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### Author:  [@Cezeta](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Cezeta)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2025, 8:57am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/832 "2025-10-09T08:57:26Z")
It looks bad. This dividend distribution from a company that was already on the brink of crisis at the time of the distribution is interesting. Didn’t the management understand anything at all, or quite the opposite? Someone knowledgeable might be able to answer. The lights are dimming…
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### Author:  [@S\_Nyyssonen](https://forum.inderes.com/u/S_Nyyssonen)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2025, 9:25am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/833 "2025-10-09T09:25:29Z")
I still say it seems like criminal activity to waste such a huge pile of shareholder money; if I were a shareholder, I would file a criminal complaint against the company and its management.
Such a mess can no longer be attributed to “incompetence.” 🤔
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### Author:  [@kettunen](https://forum.inderes.com/u/kettunen)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2025, 9:29am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/834 "2025-10-09T09:29:24Z")
A correction regarding this dividend debacle: 14% of the owners specifically demanded a dividend distribution. In such a case, the company must address the matter, which was then voted on at the general meeting.
Originally, no dividend would have been paid. The blaming finger in this regard points to dividend-hungry owners who had no understanding of the situation. Or they just wanted to get what was available, if they even looked beyond their own navel.
> **[DOVRE GROUP OYJ:N OSAKKEENOMISTAJIEN EHDOTUS 29.4.2025 PIDETTÄVÄLLE...](https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2025/03/19/3045351/0/fi/DOVRE-GROUP-OYJ-N-OSAKKEENOMISTAJIEN-EHDOTUS-29-4-2025-PIDETT%C3%84V%C3%84LLE-VARSINAISELLE-YHTI%C3%96KOKOUKSELLE.html)**
>
> Dovre Group...
> DOVRE GROUP PLC’S SHAREHOLDERS’ PROPOSAL FOR THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING TO BE HELD ON APRIL 29, 2025
>
> Dovre Group Plc has received a proposal from shareholders representing over fourteen (14) percent of the company’s shares that the Annual General Meeting of Dovre on April 29, 2025, should decide to pay a dividend of 0.06 euros per share.
>
> Thus, two different dividend proposals will be presented in the notice of the general meeting and at the general meeting itself: the first is the proposal published by the company’s Board of Directors on March 17, 2025, to not distribute a dividend, and the second is the 0.06 euro dividend presented above. The general meeting will vote between these two proposals.
Would not paying this have made any difference now, when Suvic’s projects are dragging the whole company down 🤷
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### Author:  [@Addick](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Addick)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2025, 9:35am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/835 "2025-10-09T09:35:05Z")
> **[Dovre pysäyttää Suvic Oy:n osakkeiden oston - Inderes](https://www.inderes.fi/releases/dovre-pysayttaa-suvic-oyn-osakkeiden-oston)**
>
> Dovre Group Oyj | Sisäpiiritieto | 9.10.2025 klo 11.22Dovre tiedotti 4.9.2025 solmineensa Suvic Oy:n kolmen perustajaosakkaan kanssa sopimuksen, jolla loput Suvic Oy:n osakkeet (49 % Suvic Oy...
Dovre stopped the acquisition of the remaining part of Suvic.
Could the future scenario be like this:
No more money is pushed into Suvic.
Suvic goes down.
Dovre is left with (?) a pile of cash, which is distributed, and the stock exchange listing is put up for sale.
A reasonably bad story from the investors’ perspective.
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### Author:  [@Ilmari77](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Ilmari77)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2025, 11:33am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/836 "2025-10-09T11:33:32Z")
Oh dear, nothing else to say. Project losses don’t seem to end, but now the entire company’s story threatens to come to an end. The whole Suvic adventure has been a terrible mistake. I calculated that the losses to be recorded now are approximately 9.5 million euros and the forecast is -10 million euros for Q3, meaning that other projects are not on a very solid footing either. Q3 has, if I recall correctly, always been Suvic’s best quarter before.
Even though ownership won’t rise to 100% now, I guess the umbilical cord can’t be cut just like that, and that’s why the board is now on a deliberation break. The events of the entire last 12 months have indeed been a very bad misjudgment; the old business was sold off, which was low-margin but profitable nonetheless, and instead, they jumped all-in with Suvic, which had already shown at that time that project execution was not on a strong footing. And unfortunately, I was right earlier when I predicted that all contracts made during last year are on a rather weak footing, and that’s what it looks like now. For this year, it’s probably been handled better, but on the other hand, no new contracts have been published either, i.e., when the price level and terms are right, deals have stopped.
Although the board has been criticized, it must also be stated that it is regrettable that Ilari’s cleanup and raising of the company to the surface over the last 15 years now faces this outcome. Ilari has also invested a lot of his own money. Suvic proved to be a fatal mistake.
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### Author:  [@Marcus\_Junius\_Brutus](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Marcus_Junius_Brutus)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2025, 12:25pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/837 "2025-10-09T12:25:13Z")
We only know what the company’s board has said about Suvic’s operations, so it’s possible that Suvic has done or failed to do something that could warrant claims for damages. I could, of course, finance Dovre by buying more shares, if it were so probable/certain (that is, as probable or certain as is generally possible in this type of operation) that the company could continue its operations in the future and generate money for its owners. Of course, the transformation for Dovre seems to be painful and long. I greatly wonder how substandard the contracts Suvic has made are, such that projects only incur costs for the company. Could it be that savings were made in the wrong place, and contracts were not drafted by jurists or lawyers? Or has Dovre failed to conduct, like Fortum regarding Uniper, due diligence on Suvic before buying 51%…
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### Author:  [@Sijoittaja2007](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Sijoittaja2007)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2025, 1:44pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/838 "2025-10-09T13:44:38Z")
The biggest problem here seems to be that Dovre, as the parent company, has guaranteed all of Suvic’s bank guarantees, which usually amount to 10% of the contract sum. Without the parent company’s guarantees, Suvic would not have been able to obtain so many guarantees from banks on its own figures. In addition, many developers still require a guarantee from the group’s parent company for the entire contract.
In the event of Suvic’s bankruptcy, this would lead to clients realizing the bank guarantees, and the guarantee institutions demanding equivalent sums from the guarantor, i.e., Dovre. Furthermore, the responsibilities for completing the projects would transfer to Dovre. If the work falters, delay penalties, indirect compensation, etc., would all fall on Dovre. In some compensation liabilities, the liability is usually limited to 100% of the contract sum.
My own suspicion is that the aforementioned issues are the reason why Suvic has been attempted to be financed and rescued. Dovre’s total liabilities from Suvic’s contracts are so enormous that if Suvic goes bankrupt, Dovre will also be declared bankrupt. Even the funds obtained from business transactions would not have been sufficient to manage all those liabilities, and therefore a rescue attempt has been forced.
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### Author:  [@jukkal](https://forum.inderes.com/u/jukkal)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2025, 2:50pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/839 "2025-10-09T14:50:22Z")
Is it wisest for a small investor in this situation to simply sell their holdings at a heavy loss and utilize the capital losses as tax deductions?
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### Author:  [@L\_Dabio](https://forum.inderes.com/u/L_Dabio)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/840 "2025-10-09T15:15:37Z")
> [@jukkal](#):
>
> In this situation, is it smartest for a small investor to just sell their holdings at a heavy loss and utilize the sales losses as tax deductions?
There’s a lot to think about. Waiting for bankruptcy, i.e., 100% losses, and how long until things are clear?
Sell now while you can get a few cents per share and get the deductions immediately.
A possible share issue, if participants are found, or even a directed one. This would then lead to dilution of the share, and the situation would depend on whether one participates in the share issue or not, and whether a small investor can even participate. One must consider if the company has a future even after that.
Something else, what?
Can cash be distributed to owners by some trick, and is there even anything left to distribute in the end?
Are there only bad and even worse options left here? It’s advisable to assume the value is zero. The year for which the deductions can be claimed depends on the situation.
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### Author:  [@belfastinbingviini](https://forum.inderes.com/u/belfastinbingviini)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2025, 4:37pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/841 "2025-10-09T16:37:21Z")
Even though I made a loss-making exit from Dovre over a year ago, I can’t feel schadenfreude about the current owners’ situation. It’s a shame how such a promising-looking company from a couple of years ago was messed up so badly.
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### Author:  [@Sijoittaja2007](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Sijoittaja2007)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2025, 9:15am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/dovre-group-lumitoita-ja-turskaa/3631/842 "2025-10-10T09:15:24Z")
Has anyone ever thought more closely about the reason why Suvic’s founders originally sold the majority to Dovre? Could there have been a similar situation then as now, but on a smaller scale? It is likely possible that a relatively new company took on projects at a low price and at some point realized that the cash flow couldn’t sustain it. The best option was to take on more projects for cash flow, and securing them was again ensured by low prices. Then the problem became project collateral. At this point, a larger entity was needed whose guarantees could secure the collateral.
The problem with this cash flow game is that there must be growth every year for the funds to be sufficient to complete previous projects. If growth stops or turnover drops, the house of cards begins to collapse. Rarely is strong growth achieved at a very good price level.
I understand that in the construction industry, projects are recognized in financial statements based on forecasts made by the company’s management itself, not according to actual revenues or expenses, so that results and turnover are recorded more evenly across different financial periods. I don’t know if any outsider can then verify those forecasts as right or wrong, but with that system, a project can certainly show good results if the project is still ongoing at the time of the financial statement.
Somehow Lehto comes to mind from this case. That scenario mentioned above might have happened there.
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