# Bitcoin - Great Opportunities
**URL:** https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109
**Category:** Kryptovaluutat
**Tags:** bitcoin
**Created:** [May 5, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109 "2020-05-05T21:33:05Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Winston](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Winston)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/1 "2020-05-05T21:33:05Z")
Bitcoin apparently didn’t have its own thread established. I wanted to bring this up, as I believe many here are interested in investing in cryptocurrencies, have considered it, or have at least heard about them in some way. Bitcoin is the most common, well-known, and most expensive cryptocurrency. The following quote is directly from Wikipedia:
“Bitcoin (symbol: ฿; abbreviation: BTC or XBT) is an open-source cryptocurrency created by a person or entity using the pseudonym Satoshi Nakamoto in 2008. One bitcoin is divisible into 100 million smaller units, called satoshis.”
Interesting events are happening for Bitcoin this year, as it’s the time for the halving (in 6 days). This means that block rewards will halve ➡ the number of new bitcoins generated will halve (from 12.5 bitcoins per block to 6.25 bitcoins per block). After previous halvings, Bitcoin’s price has seen explosive growth, and by the end of this year and into next year, we will see if this time is an exception. For example, after the 2016 halving, the price jumped to an all-time high of nearly 20,000 euros by the end of 2017.
The coronavirus has also pushed down Bitcoin’s price level along with stocks and other instruments. However, it has risen significantly from the lows it reached. At the time of writing, the price is 8,294 EUR/Bitcoin. A wild prediction for Bitcoin’s price also came from the well-known hacker Ross Ulbricht, who is currently in prison.
This year will be interesting in terms of price development. The combined effect of the coronavirus and the halving will certainly be interesting. So, let’s ask now, how many invest in Bitcoin (directly or, for example, through Nordnet certificates).
_Poll ([view on site](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/1))_
Come share your opinions and information on this very interesting and attractive topic!
---
### Author:  [@Vodel1](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Vodel1)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/2 "2020-05-05T21:41:38Z")
I cashed out my Bitcoins a little after the 2017 peak, and back then, I swore I wouldn’t join that rally again because my heart and nerves almost gave out several times that year from all the intense trading 😁. I’ve been watching with interest now how well cryptos have mirrored the stock market since the crash.
---
### Author:  [@Asklepios](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Asklepios)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/3 "2020-05-05T21:44:40Z")
I started buying a couple of weeks ago. I’m speculating that it will act as a store of value amidst this fiat money printing spree.
And it will act as a store of value when more and more people start to believe in Bitcoin, and correspondingly, many will see the negative effects of fiat money printing.
BTC also functions as a payment currency. Are blockchain applications also possible?
In the current situation, I’ve allocated 5% of my wealth to Bitcoin. If the “brrrr” continues and the BTC price remains reasonable, I might raise the allocation to 10-15%.
---
### Author:  [@Pollux](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Pollux)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 4:02am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/4 "2020-05-06T04:02:53Z")
Situation under surveillance. 🕶
It’s very possible that we’ll see a dip in the price around the halving, so with that in mind, there’s no rush to get in yet… the price probably won’t rocket anytime soon. Next peak in a couple of years?
---
### Author:  [@Kalle](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Kalle)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 5:22am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/5 "2020-05-06T05:22:12Z")
What’s currently the cheapest place to buy bitcoins?
---
### Author:  [@Winston](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Winston)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 9:04am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/6 "2020-05-06T09:04:13Z")
McAfee has made some bold claims about Bitcoin in recent weeks. First, it was about value development, and now this 🤔
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2020/05/05/john-mcafee-thinks-hes-solved-bitcoins-greatest-mystery-who-is-satoshi-nakamoto/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2020/05/05/john-mcafee-thinks-hes-solved-bitcoins-greatest-mystery-who-is-satoshi-nakamoto/)
---
### Author:  [@Vodel1](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Vodel1)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 10:15am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/7 "2020-05-06T10:15:18Z")
Lupaai also promised in 2017 to eat his own dick if the BTC value wasn’t a million dollars by the end of 2020. 😁 Later, however, he chickened out and retracted his statement.
---
### Author:  [@Siika](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Siika)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 10:22am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/8 "2020-05-06T10:22:20Z")
[Coinmotion](https://app.coinmotion.com/fi/register/signup?referral_code=ZGRCY57DP3GFYYYJMEWY) has a default commission of 2%, which decreases with volume. You can certainly find cheaper options abroad, but it’s important to be especially careful where you put your assets. I can’t count on one hand the number of even larger Bitcoin services that hackers have accessed over the years. If your coins are hacked in such a service, it’s probably impossible to get them back.
I chose this service for buying Bitcoins because it’s Finnish and allows you to put coins into a “vault” (meaning for a fixed period so you can’t do anything with them → security increases even if the account is somehow hacked), and as a new feature, an interest account where you can put your Bitcoins to earn interest in addition to normal price development. The interest can change daily/weekly, as I understand it, but currently, it’s at 1.415%. When investing in an interest account, Bitcoins must remain there for at least a month before they can be withdrawn and converted back into euros/other currency.
If someone wants to register there through my link, you’ll get a 50% discount on exchange fees for the first 30 days (and I apparently get a share of the realized exchange fees, but if this is not okay, then admins, please edit the end of my link away, which will lead to the same registration page without that discount):
> **[Coinmotion](https://app.coinmotion.com/fi/register/signup?referral_code=ZGRCY57DP3GFYYYJMEWY)**
>
> Coinmotion is a secure way to buy and sell Bitcoin with SEPA, credit & debit cards and Sofort payments. The leading cryptocurrency broker in the Nordics!
I have about 10% of my investment wealth tied up in this, largely for the same reasons that have been speculated here. The growth potential of this/virtual currencies in general is still enormous in the long run: currently, it is directly accepted as a payment currency only marginally, but in the future, awareness and thus ultimately its value should increase significantly, especially if/when printed cash comes to an end in the next couple of decades. I intend to slightly increase my Bitcoin share this spring, but under no circumstances do I dare to invest more than a fifth of my funds in this, at least not yet, so that I don’t lose sleep.
---
### Author:  [@Vodel1](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Vodel1)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 10:41am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/9 "2020-05-06T10:41:45Z")
Coinmotion is a good domestic service (strong authentication, etc.). I also used it before and can recommend it. You can probably find cheaper ones abroad, but the risks increase significantly, and there’s not much information about who runs them. I still have a bunch of bitcoins missing after the Bitcoin24 fiasco, where the marketplace operator turned out to be a young Polish guy who didn’t have the resources/skills for it.
I’m not sure how the tax authorities currently cooperate with Coinmotion, but at least in 2017, information about every transaction had gone to the tax authorities, even though the tax authorities didn’t add these to any tax return themselves, but you had to handle it yourself.
---
### Author:  [@Noisetti](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Noisetti)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 10:48am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/10 "2020-05-06T10:48:30Z")
When I was young, I also ventured into the exciting world of Bitcoin investing. There’s not much to tell about that, but nowadays, I steer clear of cryptocurrencies.
Why? Because Bitcoin is a purely speculative product. Its value is based on someone being willing to pay more for it than the price you bought it at. Unlike, for example, stocks, where the P/E ratio might stay the same, but because E (earnings) grows, the price also rises. I also don’t believe that as a Finnish small investor, it’s possible to have such a good market insight into Bitcoin’s future that success through speculation would be anything other than pure luck. The halving has been widely advertised now, so it should already be priced in.
It also cannot displace central bank currencies because taxation happens with these currencies, and the success of taxation is ultimately overseen by a monopoly on violence. If society collapses, then presumably information networks and so on also collapse, and various commodities with use value will be used as a medium of exchange.
That was a confusing rant; I hope someone grasped the idea. The bottom line is: you can gamble with Bitcoins, but I wouldn’t call it investing.
---
### Author:  [@\_MH](https://forum.inderes.com/u/_MH)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 11:30am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/11 "2020-05-06T11:30:09Z")
> [@Noisetti](#):
>
> Bitcoin is a purely speculative product. Its value is based on the fact that someone is willing to pay more for it than the price you bought it for. Unlike, for example, stocks, where the P/E might remain the same, but because E grows, the price also rises.
Or to extend this analogy a bit further, Bitcoin is like a stock in a company whose earnings are always and forever a round zero.
Everyone can then ponder for themselves how much they would be willing to pay for such a stock.
---
### Author:  [@Alfred](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Alfred)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 11:33am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/12 "2020-05-06T11:33:52Z")
Comparing Bitcoin to stocks doesn’t make sense, as maintaining the Bitcoin network and creating new cryptocurrencies consumes an enormous amount of energy but produces essentially nothing.
A more natural comparison would be to gold.
---
### Author:  [@Noisetti](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Noisetti)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 11:45am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/13 "2020-05-06T11:45:28Z")
I understand this point, but it must be noted that gold, as an element, also has demand for actual uses, so even if gold were not trusted as a store of value, it would never plummet to zero because gold is used, for example, in the electronics industry and in jewelry.
Another point is that since gold is an element, it will never disappear from the Earth, so if I were to buy a kilogram of gold now and leave it as an inheritance in my family, that particular gold nugget would potentially be the property of my great-grandchildren and might even have increased in value. It is difficult to see such a future for Bitcoin, because it cannot possibly retain its value over a time span of millennia, whereas the value of gold can partly be seen as based on this permanence.
Bitcoins also disappear when people die, etc., whereas physical gold cannot permanently disappear (at least not very easily).
---
### Author:  [@booop](https://forum.inderes.com/u/booop)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 11:53am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/15 "2020-05-06T11:53:45Z")
If it’s okay to share referrals here, you can trade conveniently and keep your coins safe here:
> **[Skrill | My Account](https://account.skrill.com/wallet/account/sign-up?rid=34289727&utm_source=RAF&utm_campaign=IOS)**
>
> Skrill - Fast, secure online payments
For transfers over 100e, the fees are 1.5%. For smaller amounts, it’s excessively expensive. There are also other popular cryptocurrencies besides BTC, and you can see the exchange rate graphs with the mobile app.
Remember the tax authorities when investing in cryptocurrencies. It’s hard to keep up with the tax authorities’ movements as there have been changes in 2018, 2019, and 2020. I recall that this year, losses became tax-deductible.
---
### Author:  [@DotNot](https://forum.inderes.com/u/DotNot)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 11:54am UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/16 "2020-05-06T11:54:36Z")
In my opinion, Bitcoin already has a major inherent obstacle to widespread use as a currency – there is a maximum number of Bitcoins that can be created. Once this amount, 21 million, has been mined, no new ones will be formed.
---
### Author:  [@Winston](https://forum.inderes.com/u/Winston)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 12:04pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/17 "2020-05-06T12:04:13Z")
However, it must be remembered that there is still plenty of time to reach this maximum amount. Halving occurs approximately every 4 years, and the end of Bitcoin creation is estimated to be in 2140, which is still 120 years away. If this time were to decrease, it would indicate a growing Bitcoin mining/popularity, which could very well raise the price.
---
### Author:  [@DarkRoast](https://forum.inderes.com/u/DarkRoast)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/18 "2020-05-06T13:13:48Z")
There have been good insights here so far, so I’d like to share my own neutral view on cryptocurrencies in general.
1. In my inner circle, Bitcoin has been marketed as a replacement for FIAT money in payments and as a store of value in case of FIAT currency collapse. However, I see the following question marks here:
a) Due to its volatile nature, using it as a payment method is extremely foolish. Take a regular taxi driver, for example. If Bitcoin drops 10% in a day, he effectively loses his profit from the work. (Of course, he could also get double the salary). Even companies protect themselves from currency fluctuations, so it’s an unnecessary risk for an individual.
b) During the 2017 bull market, hardly anyone wanted to spend money when the price seemed to surge more wildly day by day. A pizza bought in 2010 (10,000 BTC) would cost 85 million euros at current rates. At the same time, the value of the euro has changed by +12%, or 1.3% per year.
c) Bitcoin doesn’t seem to work as a store of value either, for the reason mentioned above. In addition, during the March crash, cryptocurrencies plummeted just like stocks.
d) A crypto tied to, for example, the euro, dollar, or gold could solve the payment method problem, but what added value does it bring? Who would bother converting their salary to Bitcoin and paying for, say, coffee with it, when almost everyone has a Visa in their wallet anyway?
2. Technically, Bitcoin is extremely poorly suited for anything other than anonymous money transfers. If Bitcoin were a country, it would consume the 41st most electricity in the world, 61.76 TWh, which is slightly less than Finland’s entire production. However, Finland’s production provides cars, timber, and other real commodities.
3. At this rate, the last Bitcoin will be mined in 2140, but what then? Why would anyone mine Bitcoin if it’s not financially beneficial? IOTA is based on micropayments (one million IOTAs for 17.6 cents). There’s time to develop the code, of course, but there are already ready-made solutions on the market.
4. Due to Bitcoin’s nature, it’s possible that eventually all the world’s Bitcoins could be in locked wallets (i.e., forgotten password, deceased owner, etc.).
5. Bitcoin’s theoretical **maximum capacity** (4-7/s) seems truly insufficient for general use when compared to Visa’s **average** transaction volume of 1400/s.
In addition to these negative views, there are also scenarios that support the adoption of cryptocurrencies:
1. Various events, for example, could utilize cryptocurrencies for smooth payment transfers in local networks. A customer buys crypto for their “Ruissilompakko” (Rye Wallet) and makes payments on the festival grounds with it.
2. Smart contracts enabled by Ethereum. For example, an application could send a will to pre-determined individuals after a person’s death. This would significantly reduce forgeries and disputes.
3. Digital service records for cars and other devices would be publicly available and verifiable.
4. In securities trading, transactions would be truly near real-time (and almost cost-free) without manual work by intermediaries.
As a final remark, I see enormous potential in blockchains (and Tangle), but I don’t believe the future lies in Bitcoin or in consumer-to-consumer payment traffic.
---
### Author:  [@DotNot](https://forum.inderes.com/u/DotNot)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/19 "2020-05-06T13:57:07Z")
Agreed, blockchains will have many good use cases in the not-too-distant future, but Bitcoin does not seem to be the best/most functional implementation.
I didn’t even know about Bitcoin’s capacity limitation, but it is indeed quite a big obstacle if Bitcoin were meant to displace traditional currencies.
---
### Author:  [@booop](https://forum.inderes.com/u/booop)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 2:03pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/20 "2020-05-06T14:03:49Z")
Here’s one way you can pay for purchases with crypto anywhere:
[https://www.coinbase.com/card](https://www.coinbase.com/card)
---
### Author:  [@SijoitusSeppo](https://forum.inderes.com/u/SijoitusSeppo)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109/21 "2020-05-06T15:21:59Z")
Well, it works so that it converts your cryptos into dollars/euros on the fly and the merchant receives their money in $/€. So it’s not real crypto payment (and Coinbase naturally takes a cut).
[Next page](https://forum.inderes.com/t/bitcoin-suuria-mahdollisuuksia/5109.md?page=2)